My son is having a hard time deciding between UR and SJU. He wants to be an actuary. The cost is about the same. SJU has a good actuarial science program, but the cons is that he has to be really sure that actuarial work is what he wants to do. Richmond doesn’t have an actuarial science major but is better academically and more prestigious (he would major in mathematical economics here). Thanks for any thoughts.
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Can you find an actuary from UR - i.e. is it possible?
Yes, St. Johns has not been seen as a powerhouse academically - it’s more known for two people - Chris Mullin and Lou Carnesecca.
That said - if it has the vibe he likes - it’s in Queens, there will be nothing wrong with it.
You might ask for all career outcomes - in case he changes his major. I’m sure many of their grads do well - and as you know, many students choose a “safety” school for whatever reason. And hey, if you like hoops, in addition to their storied history, you have Rick Pitino now!!
UR is a fine name - but it’s also a bit more isolated (in Richmond, but not near things) - and at least for my daughter, we didn’t spend long - so it might be a “fit” type place.
On linkedin, there are actuaries from UR - two I see with a Mathematical Econ degree so it is possible.
I pulled up another in Richmond but not from Richmond - it was George Mason - a math major and I see another a stats major.
So it seems possible - i.e. the degree is likely flexible.
You might even reach out to a UR grad on linkedin and ask the question of how they got their start - if that’s a career interest but not 100%.
Or set up a meeting with the academic department head and ask how this degree can get you to the actuary tests and a career, etc.
Best of luck.
Thanks for your response. It’s very helpful. I might try to reach out to those UR students on LinkedIn.
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Richmond says this about its Math-Econ program:
This describes a program at which your son could study for his specific goal, while also offering breadth and flexibility should his interests change.
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Good point - they even have course recommendations.
Actuarial Studies - Department of Mathematics - School of Arts & Sciences - University of Richmond
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UR would offer a stronger program than St John’s (the general academics and in particular the math depth) as well as a residential experience (St Johns is very commuter/suitcase). If it’s the same cost it seems that st John’s wouldn’t be very good value.
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My daughter is a finance major math minor at Clemson. She wants to be an actuary, applied to 20 colleges (needed merit) and found there are several pathways. She has an actuary advisor in addition to her finance advisor and honors advisor, is a rising senior with enough credits to graduate but is staying and taking more courses to help prepare for exams (third next month), has an internship at AON this summer. She wanted a plan B in case actuarial science wasn’t her thing.
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Have you visited both schools? They are very different. Independent of his post grad plans, where does he see himself thriving for the next 4 years. At a large Catholic college in a borough of NYC with a high commuter rate or a very residential college of just over 3K undergrads slightly outside of Richmond.
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Yes, we have visited both schools within the last month. We’re from the Southwest and only learned about SJU when my son started exploring actuarial science programs. Not considering the major, UR would have been the obvious choice. UR: he loved the mock class/professor at the accepted student day, student resources, food, dorms, and campus, not into Greek life. SJU: he slightly prefers NYC to Richmond due to job opportunities in the industry, the food scene, and public transportation. Overall, he likes UR better but doesn’t mind going to SJU for the sake of the program. The advantages of the program at SJU are its deep connections with insurance companies in the NY area (they claim 100% job placement) and the opportunities to earn credits toward actuarial exams, which I believe are only available at about 10 colleges across the country.
Unlike me, my son doesn’t like to think about a Plan B because he thinks it would take away his focus (!!) He has weighed the pros and cons of each school, and on a scale of 1 to 10, SJU rates at 7.3 and UR at 7.15 — pretty close.
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Having 3 exams by graduation is awesome. Great for your D. I’ve been trying to explain to my son about having a Plan B just in case, but he thinks he would be more likely to stick it out if he committed to an actuarial science program.
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I get your son’s logic but I would want NY for the city moreso than for the jobs - which can be had from anywhere. SJU is 20K kids but many locals.
Richmond will be regional but it’s a high end school - but when we visited, not much in the immediate surrounds vs. if you’re in Queens - not the best place to be but you can get into city relatively easily - and maybe that’s what he seeks?
In the end, you need to get a job - and if he does and it’s where he wants to be, that’s what matters.
From a pure reputation POV, these aren’t on the same plain but that doesn’t mean the lesser rep shouldn’t be chosen. After all, kids choose safety schools every day. And even if actuary doesn’t work out, I’m sure St. Johns kids get hired too. But the peer group is likely to be much stronger at Richmond…much stronger.
St. Johns, of course, will have the religious aspect too to factor in.
In the end, he has to decide. Common wisdom says Richmond but common wisdom doesn’t always work.
And i’d say this - UR, a fine school, but not necessarily nationally known - not that it matters. As I said above, SJU is known for hoops.
Whichever he decides, I wish him a good four years.
I don’t know the hows or whys but my daughter had a bunch of actuary interviews this fall, and a lot of offers, in the NYC area. Ironically she was offered one in the same building in Manhattan as her cousin, who is an accounting major at University of Richmond (MetLife maybe?). Her cousin is living with us this summer for her internship (she’s from Chicago). My daughter accepted a better offer in NJ in spite of wanting to work in NYC (to be young and actually want yo work in NYC…).
I don’t know how I feel about the concept of “brand strength” in general. And I haven’t looked at the methodology in detail. But this is interesting: UR is ranked #15 nationally.
Here are the top 40:
Interesting - USD is #16, ahead of Vanderbilt, Williams, Amherst and UNC.
U of San Diego ought to be buying billboards and placing them around all other campuses 
Thanks for sharing.
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I’m currently at UR with my DS for admitted students day.
I’m not familiar with Saint John’s but I have visited my niece at Fordham. I would 100% choose UR. I think UR will set your son up for success. They have 1800 staff/ faculty for an undergrad pop of 3900. Strong alumni network and a huge endowment which allows for programs like the Richmond Guarantee (you get grant money for internships). Lots of opportunities for internships. I had lunch with a pre-med sophonore who is shadowing an MD at a Richmond hospital. The UR shuttle takes her there. UR will provide whatever your son needs to succeed.
And I say all of this knowing that my DS will not choose UR. He has the presidential scholarship here but a full tuition scholarship at a school that he prefers.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts – very helpful. Hopefully it will become clearer for him (and myself as well) in the next few days.
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That’s very interesting. Thanks for sharing!
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That’s so neat! I looked up the actuarial science program at Clemson, and it sounded like a really good program. (I don’t think actuarial science is a focus at UR from the people that I talked to). Congrats on her job offer
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Thanks for sharing! That’s exactly how I felt when we were at the admitted students day last month. But considering his career choice, somehow it just became less obvious.
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The admins seem really committed to helping the students succeed. I’m sure that they can set your son on the path that he needs.
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