<p>Well I’m back after almost a year. I have found this forum a great place to bring concerns and questions and get sage/practical advice for parents with questions/dilemmas on being a parent. I have been peeking in at the forum over the past year --never comment because I feel most people have said in one way or another, what I might have said.<br>
I’m back again because I need a sounding board. My 19 yo daughter who is in sophomore year has just shared that she is thinking about getting a job so she can get an apt with her boyfriend. I had a feeling this was going to be coming up - she has hardly wanted to come home- during breaks/weekends. During the summer she found it in herself to get up early so she could go back to school area where he lives so she could see him usually shes not out of bed till noon.<br>
Some facts
She is a shy girl - INTP describes her quite well.
Freshman year was hard - never really made any friends or did much socially - I wrote about it in Sept and Nov of last year. In January the guy she met on line and communicated with for over a year relocated to live close to her school. He doesnt drive, has no family - parents are deceased - uncle moves around. He has no family in the area and contact with the few out of the area is minimal ( I believe) Was planning on moving out here to go to community college but realized it would be best if he established residency. Found an apt to share with 3 other people on Craig’s list - about 5 miles from her school. Found a job after a 6 month search - right about the time summer break started. Changed jobs after 3 months with about a 2.50 increase in pay presently making $11/hr. Is limited in jpob search because he doesnt drive cant afford car, insurance etc I dont thibl he has used public transportation since he moved here. I gave him a bike to help him in his transportation dilemma. Seems like he enjoys watching movies and playing computer games- never hear of them going out to do fun (my perception of fun) things.<br>
Getting close to 1 year mark not planning on enrolling in school- daughter tells me there is no timetable he needs to make money to survive.
Meanwhile daughters grades have dropped 1st semester on provost list 2nd semester above 3.0 but not on provost list (2nd semester was easier class load/course requirements).
Still not involved in school I feel like she spends most of her free time with him Tells me there is nothing interesting going on at campus, has nothing in common with kids on campus (do drugs and drink a lot).<br>
I feel like she has become his world - chauffer, advisor, support system etc.
Meanwhile she is not taking advantage of college and all it has to offer. I dont know the guy well he has been invited to family functions etc but doesnt come Came once to go to comic con convention was quiet, felt liked he tried to avoid talking with us didnt even say thanks for the accommodations. Did not leave abig impression . When we first met him after driving up to college to make sure he was who she said he was (remember she met him on line) both my husband and I left the lunch with the exact same feeling “he wasn’t somebody with a lot of drive”.
This is breaking my heat. I feel like she is throwing away her opportunities because of her fear of socializing and the comfort he gives her
It is so hard to talk with her because she gets so defensive and Im busy trying not to say it like it is because I dont want to turn off the communication a fine balance.<br>
In my heart I want to say many things (I usually dont sugar coat things) but dont want to drive her closer to him. I could ramble on but I think you get the picture.
Anyone out there who has dealt with similar situation or has sage advice</p>
<p>My condolences to you on your daughter’s situation.</p>
<p>You seem very charitable in your assessment of the BF. Some people would just say “Slacker” from the description you’ve provided. He could be a very good person inside, just needs a bit of growing up, but it doesn’t sound like your D is providing that motivation to grow up that many guys get when they find a girl. This is a bad sign.</p>
<p>My sister had such a BF for her first 3 years in college. He was going nowhere fast, steadily employed (telemarketing - yuk!), but did nothing else with himself. Fortunately, my sister didn’t get sucked into the move in with him situation and kept her grades high. She was also living at home going to a commuter school (she is a shy introvert as well), so the free rent probably had a lot to do with that.</p>
<p>This brings me to the lever you still may hold - money. You have certain standards that you believe she should live to - grades, self-image, etc. If you are funding her education at this school, I think you can say that you are paying her room and board at an away school because you believe she should be benefiting from the “college experience” of living with classmates and being involved in her school. If she doesn’t want that experience, (i.e. move in with BF), she should just pack her bags and come home and go to commuter school and spare you the expense of providing that full “college experience”. Especially since the grades are sliding. There is no reason to pay for prestigous school if she is going to be a mediocre student. That opens no doors in life.</p>
<p>This moves the argument to being about her and her life - not the BF. </p>
<p>There is risk in the strategy. She may decide to forego your financial assistance, get a job (to support this lifestyle) and move in with BF. That may cost her grades and put her in a bit of stress. It will likely move her to push BF to make something of himself when the checkbook doesn’t magically balance. In a semester or two, it will work itself out (BF gets motivated or daughter dumps him and goes back to the right path). This is when you need to be most supportive (emotionally) and understanding, accepting her mistake (if she learns from it), and be willing to move on positively.</p>
<p>My sister did end up dumping her slacker BF when she finally came around to the conclusion that he was a boat anchor on her life. She found another underachiever (working in a camera store). She seemed to have a thing for guys who weren’t hung up on themselves. However, this one, when presented with the move up or move on quickly improved his life, taking courses, getting a better job. They eventually married (after he was able to outearn her - a condition she put on him). Today he does quite well (despite never finishing that 4-year degree) earning a respectable 6-figure salary for a big IT company in a very secure situation.</p>
<p>I think your D knows what you want for her. You just need to set the limits and not enable her self-destructive relationship (granted there are worse). Definitely not a good idea to be particularly stern or emotional about it. Just business. If she thinks she can save him, she can try, but not on your dime.</p>
<p>Good Luck and stay calm. This too shall pass.</p>
<p>goaliedad’s post says it all.</p>
<p>Especially when a young woman is shy and in a new situation, she is vulnerable to the first person who takes an interest, slacker or not.</p>
<p>My heart breaks in advance for her because (we hope) this will not have a happy ending for her. She <em>will</em> wake up one day. My advice is to calmly let her know what your feelings are and that when the day comes that he’s gone you will be there for her. But I also agree that you do not have to financially support her position. Don’t use that as a threat, but just as a fact that while you might continue tuition payments, room and board or allowance are out. She wants to be an independent adult, so let her. Opportunity will still be there when he’s gone.</p>
<p>I guess what screams out at me is that it’s time for a transfer. She hasn’t connected with the school, and is looking for connections outside of it–and she’s not even making the outside connections interesting or helpful. The BF sounds like a pet. If your daughter is as shy and open with you as it sounds, is she also compliant? Would she follow GD’s suggestion and come home for a semester, take courses at a local school, and then try the residential living again elsewhere?</p>
<p>I see a drop-out ahead. It’s very hard to maintain an academic life style when you’re living and associating with people who don’t do that also. Been there, tried it, it doesn’t work. I was very confused during my first two years as to what I wanted to do–bounced around from communications to journalism to english. Left the dorm to move in with my (pro) guitar-slinger boyfriend (what else?), stopped going to classes a month later, and spent the next year+ living the life of a Boston rocker’s girlfriend. Sex & drugs & Rock’n Roll 24/7. There are things about that year that I will remember when I’m sitting on a rocking chair in the nursing home cackling for no apparent reason, but it’s always been the part of my life that I most regret, in retrospect. Not that my parents could have done anything about it–I’m not shy, and I didn’t communicate with them at all for that year–my choice. When it was over, they were there for me anyway, as dig mentioned above. I did find my way back and completed my degree (in history) with honors, but I feel I was lucky. If it must be, it will pass, but if you can gently short-circuit it, it would be much better.</p>
<p>I remember your posts well because your daughter sounds very much like my niece. I remember that she had a hard time in high school too and suffered from depression.</p>
<p>Assuming that you’ve checked this guy out, and he is who he says he is, I’d step back and let your daughter do as she sees fit. While he is not driven, who’s to say he isn’t a decent young man who has had a hard life? It could be that he needs a few years to get on his feet, earn some money and then decide what he wants to do with his life. If the worst that you can say is that he doesn’t remember to say thank you, you’re in good shape.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, it sounds like your daughter is happier. Staying in bed until noon, while normal for some, spells depression for others. Until she is strong and confident she will probably not attract driven friends, boyfriends or same sex. If this young man is a caring person, she will probably gain some self confidence from this relationship, and if he’s not right for her as she matures, she’ll move on.</p>
<p>It’s hard to believe that you can win this one in terms of changing her mind and have all come out happy and intact. Your daughter seems to appropriately know she’ll have to get a job and pay for her living expenses if she is to live with him. I would never withold tuition as a threat, good chance you’ll end up with her married to him without a degree if you do that.</p>
<p>My niece who also suffers from depression was very, very insecure when she left for college and holed up with a guy I wouldn’t have chosen for her. Now I have to admit he did wonders for her confidence. She’s doing a study abroad term right now when 2 years ago she would never have left her backyard if not by force! They are still together and I’ve come to understand that while they came together through mutual insecurity they have done a great deal for each other.</p>
<p>Make a real effort to get to know her boyfriend. If he’s uncomfortable going to your family events you should try to spend time with him on his turf. Anything you say will be suspect until you’ve really tried to like him.</p>
<p>It is almost a certainty that a lonely young woman will choose him over you if pushed. I wish you luck.</p>
<p>zafiro,
I hope I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are more concerned about how much money this boy is making, or will make in the future, than what kind of person he is. Not everybody puts making lots of money at the absolute top of his/her priorities in life.
I bring this up because you seem very judgmental of him. If his parents are deceased, that is probably not his fault and I would not get all bent out of shape if he didn’t thank me properly…who woul’dve ever taught him that?
Now if he treats her horribly or is obviously taking advantage of her, that is another story. But if it’s just a matter of him being from the wrong side of the tracks, that’s something else. </p>
<p>From my own personal experience: I married such a person when I was very young and he did not have much drive, as you say. He was and is a hard worker, though. BTW we are still married nearly 20 years later, but I will never forget some of the digging comments made about my H by my father (who himself is far from perfect!). Just please be careful about what you say to your D about this boy because she MIGHT be with him permanently. Of course, odds are that she won’t, but you never know.</p>
<p>Even though you are probably feeling disappointed in your daughter, it’s important that she know that you love her and think of her as a wonderful person. She needs the high self-esteem that you can reinforce in order to think clearly and make the best possible decisions for herself. She is experimenting now and likely has some of the same doubts about BF that you have. </p>
<p>Taking a hard line on the guy might backfire, so just continue to be supportive of her. “I’m always on YOUR side,” I recently told my D, who has been through some similar experiences, and she smiled, knowing that I really meant it and that she can really trust me.</p>
<p>Agree with goalie Dad…understand getting to know the BF, not taking a hard line with the guy but there is no reason the parents should finance anything for a 19 year old. If their original agreement was to provide room and board, plus tuition while she was enrolled in school full time and she moves off campus, etc. she is changing the rules. She is 19 years old-an adult-who can do what she wants with her life. But they do not have to finance it… DrDrewsMom, I didn’t read it that way and I would be leery of anybody someone met online. The daughter really knows nothing about his background, etc…</p>
<p>This will scare the pants off of her.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tpupdates/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tpupdates/archives/2006_10_18.html#195997[/url]”>http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tpupdates/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tpupdates/archives/2006_10_18.html#195997</a></p>
<p>Hi everyone –
I’m trying
Thanks for the support and advice -seeing and doing are two different things. I just don’t want to estrange the relationship - She is our only child - we have tried to give her every advantage – I did mention on my last talk that maybe the school where she is going isn’t he one for her. She is on a scholarship and has the opportunity to travel – Doesn’t want to go and be lonely – She told me he makes her happy – I told her happiness comes from within – I’m trying to say the right stuff and not scream out my opinions which are many</p>
<p>Hopefully she will take my last comments that were filtered because I don’t want to drive her closer to him –will give her food for thought. I feel he has a lot of influence on her and since he is in a different space in his life with no supports (emotionally/financially) he looks at things differently.<br>
IE she goes to school 1.5 hours from home – talking about thanksgiving – she thought she’d spend it with bf – we told her thanksgiving is family time/tradition, etc. – told her she could bring him – he could stay here or at cheap hotel if he preferred – She shared that this is his first thanksgiving in his own place ( ie with 4 other people ) and wanted to start his own traditions – thanksgiving, Christmas tree etc.<br>
She was trying to convince me it is the natural order of life that she start move into adulthood and away from us. I told her after she has education. </p>
<p>Dr Drewsmom – I mentioned his earnings and his lack of thanks as a way to shed light. It was never mentioned to my daughter - I take the factor of his upbringing as an explanation – I don’t think he has had much and in that way, I feel for him.
I think he may be shy too? It’s hard to say. The opportunity to get to know him is difficult – they have been offered.
I just don’t think my daughter needs someone who is so needy – She needs someone who can bring her out and engage her. Most people on the outside can see this a relationship that has many obstacles – she doesn’t have friends that she confides in – he is her confidant – so she is not getting unbiased input.<br>
As Goalidad said he is a slacker – didn’t find a job for 6 months – was looking for something more than starbucks ( apparently spent his small inheritance from the house sale after his mom died – finally took a job through an agency working in a warehouse. The first 6 months (and possibly through today has not learned how to use public transportation . I think he spent his time holed up in apt while daughter was at classes – he has no money – can’t take her out/ movies etc – yes I want more for my daughter!
I have no problem with people that aren’t educated but I know that not having education puts one at disadvantage.</p>
<p>Barrons- your link scared me</p>
<p>zafiro, I feel for you, as the mom of 4Ds, I’ve been there. In my experience, it is best, in the long run, to keep your opinions to yourself about the boyfriends, especially if they are negative ones. The school issues are obviously issues which you should be involved with your D, and I don’t think it’s just because you’re paying some of her education costs. You should be involved because she’s your D and her education is important to you. I will disagree with some others here about only paying tuition and nothing more, should she decide to move in with him. I, personally, would not do that. Even if she’s willing to get a job and contribute to her living costs, which would concern me more for the time involved and how it would influence her school work, I think that it’s a mistake to make life difficult for her, almost as a punishment, for ‘changing the rules’, as someone else called it. As long as she’s going to school f/t and doing well, I would assure her that I’d continue to pay whatever I had initially agreed to pay. </p>
<p>Her decision to move in with him or not will not likely be influenced by whether or not you ‘cut her off’ for spending money or expenses. If she’s determined to do this, she’ll do it regardless, and, in my mind, I’d rather know that my D is able to buy groceries, pay her rent, and bills, than to stop contributing to her costs just because I don’t happen to think she’s made a good choice.</p>
<p>As others have said, she may eventually see that he isn’t the one for her, but there’s also a chance that he will be, and that he’ll be around forever! You don’t want to cause unnecessary problems in that regard, when, in fact, it’s only you who will lose. Obviously, if the boy is abusive in any way, that changes everything, but that doesn’t appear to be the case here. Nineteen year olds, especially boys (and with huge family issues, too), are often at odds with finding the right path for their futures. Give him some time, as I’m sure you’ve imagined how your D would be faring right now in life if she didn’t have you and your H.</p>
<p>Continue to make attempts to include them both in family gatherings, etc. Make a point of telling her that you’d like to get to know him better since he’s such an important part of her life now. I’m sure you haven’t done it intentionally but perhaps he feels the tension there when he’s around. Kids sometimes are more perceptive than we think. On the Thanksgiving issue, maybe if you explained how important it was to you that BOTH of them came home, she’d convince him. My guess is that if she tells him she wants to go home for Thanksgiving dinner and she wants him to come along, he’ll agree.</p>
<p>If she’s happy, try to be happy for her. Keep the possible transfer issue separate, but it’s something you’ll want to discuss with her at some point. If she’s truly unhappy at her current school, there’s reason to investigate other options. </p>
<p>Lastly, don’t let the fact that they met online worry you too much. People here are making too much of that fact. If she’d met him at a bar, or in the grocery store, or walking down the street, how could she know him any better than she does now? There are good people and bad people everywhere, both online and off.</p>
<p>There is a type of creepy guy that goes after shy vulnerable girls and then gets them to do their bidding. I’d go with your gut and if you think he might be anything off center, have a check run on him. You can find out a lot for $100.</p>
<p>Good advice alwaysamom.</p>
<p>Zafiro, I fear you will drive your daughter away. It is a good bet she knows you don’t approve of this relationship and she would rather go foward with your blessings than without. However I believe she has given you good reason to believe she’s prepared to go along without it.</p>
<p>Also, if she is on a scholarship, holding back funds may not be a potent threat. Though I agree with alwaysamom, I would not issue a threat.</p>
<p>It must hurt terribly the first time an only child tells you they have other holiday plans. It heard me even when I had a house full. But it’s going to happen sooner or later with adult kids. How would you have reacted if she planned to go to the home of a boy you approved of?</p>
<p>At some point we realize we have no control over out adult children. They will choose what role we play in their lives. Look around at how many adults dread spending time with their pareents. It is my goal to make my kids enjoy my company and want to spend time with me. I think it’s the only way I can win.</p>
<p>Alwaysamom you make some excellent points in your post. </p>
<p>The only thing I would do differently is I would not make a huge deal about Thanksgiving. Maybe just say, well then we look forward to seeing you and ___ at Christmas. She will go off and have Thanksgiving with BF and his roomies and probably miss her family. Telling her she “has” to be there for a holiday might drive her away or make her resentful. At that age I missed quite a few holiday dinners with family to spend it with friends but soon returned to regular holiday celebrations with the family.</p>
<p>Oh, I agree, PTMom, I didn’t mean to imply that she should be told that she “has” to be there. I don’t think I said that, did I? I’ve been through the ‘sharing’ holidays issue with my girls’ boyfriends’ families and I know that I’d love to have them ALL here for ALL holidays, and with their b/fs! But it’s not realistic and I HAVE learned to share them. ;)</p>
<p>Zafiro:</p>
<p>Many good opinions already stated here. You have a risk of having your daughter turn to the BF if you are perceived to attack him in any way, make him welcome in your home, be generous of spirit, hope that getting to know him and being open to him will allow her to relax and not feel defensive of him.</p>
<p>My DD had a BF, she was away at school and a senior, so we had not met him, but in my gut I did not feel right about it, just little cues, like the fact that caller ID always showed is home ph#. A few months later I met him and was amazed at the slacker she was with, I cannot tell you how he bothered me, but since she had been away more than not for most of 4 years, I endeavored to get to know him and not show my judgmental feelings. Nothing made me feel any better about him and a few months later, my gut was proven right by his behaviors. He put her in a situation that caused her to be at risk, she realised he was not a good person, and she ended up being stalked by him after she broke things off!</p>
<p>Could I have done anything sooner??? Not sure, I don’t think she would have listened until she saw it for herself, some of our kids have to make their own mistakes 
He stalked her for months after and it was a hellish time, but we were there for her completely and, interestingly, she admitted she had kind of wanted her Dad to meet the BF on a visit, as she was having her own doubts and knew her Dad would not pull any punches. So, should I have said he was a loser? The day her Dad and I came into town for a visit was the day that things fell apart, so I had no chance to see her reaction to negative parental comments, but I would say, do nothing to push her away and be there for her no matter what.</p>
<p>Each family has their own rules, in our home, if you are a student, with your life paid for by mom & dad, then no living with the BF; if you are an adult, supporting yourself, then you can make your own rules. Be consistent with your family’s rules. If she has been told no living together, than no financial support; if living together is fine with you, but you don’t care for this guy, then it would be more difficult to exert your opinion.</p>