Help! First time college mom!

Parents Forum
1

So, I’ve heard this is a place to learn more about colleges and the whole admissions process and what not. Hope you people can help. This is my first time dealing with this and I don’t know where to start. I know it’s late, but I’m just sitting wide awake with this on my mind.

I’m having a bit of trouble talking with my eldest son about this. He’s a rising senior and is in that stage where he’s thinking about where he’s going to apply. He’s a pretty talented student with ok grades (3.6ish) and great score for this state (30). I’m proud of what he’s done so far. My husband’s a railroader/retired U.S. Marine and I teach at UND and a few online classes at Maryland. We have a pretty nice life, but I’m thinking we make too much money (LOL listen to me) for financial aid. Worst of all is, we won’t be paying for his tuition or anything like that. We might buy a few things here and there, like a laptop, but most of his expenses are on his own. He knows this, and I get the feeling that’s what’s pushing him away, with the mentality of “If I’m going to have to go into debt, might as well enjoy it.”

My problem is he’s getting really moody about this, and just won’t listen when I suggest things, which is frankly not like him. We really started this whole thing when my mother-in-law asked him, as a sophomore, where I wanted to go. He responded with “Cal, Minnesota, Ohio State, USC… either one, really. I don’t like it here.” So, he’d kind of been thinking about what he wants in a school. I was kind of blown away with him straight up telling his grandparents he didn’t like where he lived. I understand hating where you live in high school, but so rude. She started to talk sense into him asking “How are you going to pay for that?” and the like. So from what I gathered when he tells me is he wants a big flagship school with football and culture out of this state. It honestly sounds like he just wants a normal big city experience, and is tired of living in a “backwater,” as he calls it.

But he won’t listen to me when I tell him to apply to a North Dakota school. He mostly berates the communities around the schools, complaining they don’t have anything to offer. Just a larger version of “this hick town.” After that, he starts moaning about how the only good programs at UND or NDSU are in engineering or agriculture-related fields.

After visiting Minnesota, he loves it, but I’m just concerned that he might not get in because they aren’t as open as a lot of other state schools. I mean, more than half the applicants there don’t get in. And he doesn’t know where else to apply. All he knows is he won’t stay here. I remember him saying something like “I can tolerate the cold, and I can handle the small town crap, and I’ve grown up around rednecks my life. But I can’t keep living with all three at the same time.”

I’m just worried, and I’d like to try to talk to him about this, but I’m wondering how.

2

If you won’t help at all, I don’t see that he will be able to afford Minnesota. He will get in state tuition, but he can’t borrow enough (and shouldn’t even if he could) to cover it. He can only borrow $5,500 freshman year, and a little more each year after that. I can sort of see why he is frustrated; the financial aid system assumes parents will provide some help to their kids, and you either can’t or won’t. That really limits his choices – college is much, much more expensive than when we were college age.

Here is a website that might be helpful:

http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/

I am not sure that it is completely up to date, so check the school websites.

Also, each college has a net price calculator on their website. Run them with your financial information, he may be eligible for some aid.

3

Wow, no wonder he’s upset.
Average costs for most colleges is over $30K per year.

Look at the NPCs for all of the schools. Very shocking if you haven’t paid tuition in a while.

4

If you’re not paying for tuition, he’s only going to be able to afford UND if he commutes (direct loan). And even then, just barely.

5

Why won’t you help pay tuition?

Maybe 50 years ago, a student could work part time and afford most of tuition, but that hasn’t been true for years. It seems the only option is your son living with you and commuting.

6

Oops- major correction to my post 3. I didn’t realize UND’s website gave tuition in semesters instead of by year.

Your son will NOT be able to afford even UND, even commuting, unless he makes more than can reasonably be expected, he commutes, and you continue to pay all of his living costs. (Unless, of course, he qualifies for significant merit aid or gets a tuition waiver of some sort since you teach there.)

7

Looks like he may be eligible for a 50% tuition benefit at UND. https://und.edu/finance-operations/_files/docs/3-4-employee-family-tuition-waivers.pdf However, that decreases his tuition by only about $4000/year. His cost of attendance at UND would be about $18K/year if he lives on campus, It would be $5K/year at UND if he commutes and you continue to pay his living expenses and $24K/year at UMN.

8

@NDmom123 - I don’t mean any disrespect but I am genuinely curios. As a college professor, haven’t you always had an expectation that your son will get a college degree? If yes, haven’t you been putting money into a 529 college savings plan for his education? I frankly don’t understand that you won’t pay tuition. He is your son and I don’t believe parenting ends at 18. It is not only your duty but it should be your pleasure to help your son in any way you can to get an education. Start reading The Parents of HS Class of 2017 thread. It is inspiring to read about parents who have whiteboards, binders, and spreadsheets about colleges that would be good fits for their DC.

I think before talking to your son you need to do a lot of research and come up with a list of 6 to 10 schools that you think would be a good fit for him. I use a spreadsheet (but whatever methodology works for you) gather all your information and talk to him about it after breakfast or before dinner one day. Your son may be scared by the whole process. Hopefully, your research into schools will show him that he is not on his own to manage the process and that there are many options he should consider.

9

@NDMom123 - I have been in your shoes! The first thing to do is to determine what you qualify for in financial aid. You can go to each school’s website and use their individual NetPriceCalculator to give you a rough estimate of what you would be expected to pay. Do not assume that you make too much! I highly recommend looking into private schools - you are likely to receive more financial aid depending on what your EFC is determined to be. (If you’re not familiar, your EFC is the amount determined from filing the FAFSA that the government states you are able to contribute, each school will then use that info to determine what they are able to offer.) State schools typically do not offer financial aid, unless you are a top student, and OOS state schools are definitely not going to offer any. The large state flagships like Ohio State and Minnesota are your costliest option because they are so desirable, they can easily charge extremely high OOS tuition. My D had the same criteria as your S with some of those same schools on her list. We worked with her to find some similar schools that would offer financial aid. She will attend Syracuse this year at half the cost of our instate flagship! Do a lot of searching and visiting schools that may have some of the same appeal with lots of school spirit and a lot of activity. Compare different OOS tuition prices, the flagships are the costliest but some are more reasonable, D found some in NC that she applied to that were comparable to our instate rates. Both my D and S had the same attitude as your S and it took them a lot of time to start to embrace the process - just realize that your suggestions and assistance will be met with many eye rolls . . . let it “roll” off your back and keep on keeping on, lol! My D had similar stats to your S as well and it helped to meet with and really listen to the admissions counselors to find out what they were really looking for. Help your S to highlight in his application why he is a great applicant and what he will contribute to the school. D was convinced she would not make it into Syracuse, but she did! However, she went the extra mile to really set her app apart with a lot of volunteer experience and EC’s that made her a good candidate. Make sure your S compares his stats to the school’s average to get a sense of what his chances are, but you never know. Her stats were well below the avg for one of the NC schools but she was accepted. . . but she also met several times with them and showed a lot of interest and personalized each app for each school - what she loved about each school and why she would be a great student there. Good luck in the process and apply early . . . just ignore all the moaning and groaning, lol!

10

We live in a very rural town in southern Indiana. Even some of my friends who have lived here their entire lives would admit that my son was raised among rednecks.

Back when my son was a sophomore in HS, maybe even a freshman we started talking about what he was looking for in a college. I told him ''This is your chance. You have 4 years. Go, experience something different. You’ve lived in a small town, go try a big town or city. You’ve lived in the midwest, go try the south or east coast. See if you like it. It will help you make a decision on where you want to be after you graduate."

As a single mom with a very middle class income, we didn’t qualify for any federal aid, but private schools are more generous with need based aid and some offered up to 50% of their total costs in aid, but that still left a large sum to pay. And you’d have to do the NPC (net price calculators) on your income to see what you might qualify for.

Just running Google searches on my son’s stats I discovered he could get a full tuition scholarship at the University of Alabama (your son would need to improve his ACT for their full tuition scholarship, but they accept test scores through December). And although we could have afforded for him to stay in state it would have meant taking all the loans we were able and stretching the budget, so he opted to go the 500 miles away to attend school there.

My son is my only child and I struggled a little with sending him to school 500 miles away, but it’s really worked well for us. And I still pay most of his costs - rent, utility, food, books. I drive a 16 year old car with more than 200,000 miles so I don’t have a car payment, but my son’s education will last him forever, I can manage to cut my costs for a few years to provide that for him.

11

He could also try for ROTC schools.

12

There are 2 things going on I would love some clarity on.

  1. Why are you not paying for tuition? I understand that you may not be able to afford a lot, I get it, and the people on this site will be very helpful in terms of helping you navigate financial aid. But it is unusual to me that someone in the field of education - a college professor, if I’m understanding you correctly – would not value education enough to do whatever they legitimately can to pay for a child’s college tuition.

  2. Why are you upset / offended that he wants a normal big city experience and calls where he lives a backwater? What’s wrong with wanting a big city experience? If I am correct in assuming you live in Grand Forks, it’s a town of 50,000. In most big cities, that’s the size of a good-sized suburb. It feels to me that you are threatened / insulted by his wanting to leave a small area and experience the big, big world that is out there. And that, I think, is really a shame. Do you perceive it as a rejection of you / your family somehow?

One thing in your post really struck me, and it was this line:
But he won’t listen to me when I tell him to apply to a North Dakota school.
Of course he won’t listen to you, because he’s frustrated you didn’t listen to him – he wants out of North Dakota. Can you see that it’s frustrating for him not to be heard by you?

13

You’re asking your son to come up every single year, for four years, with $25,000, at the very least. Where is he going to get that amount of money? He can’t borrow that much - and seriously, do you think going into debt the size of a house mortgage at 21 is a good idea?

Meanwhile, you are grousing you “make too much money”. Sorry to be harsh but if I were your son I’d be way more than “moody” . He may know he is a bright hard working student with dreams but he cannot afford to go to college because you and your husband decided you won’t pay.

I know college is expensive. My daughter gets merit aid (aka scholarship) that covers about half the total cost. We do not qualify for financial aid (due to inherited assets, not income) We saved a bit but not much so my entire salary (I work part time) goes toward retirement savings and paying school costs. That’s it. We had to adjust our life style while she was in high school to make this work.

I suggest researching schools together, run the Net Price Calculator (NPC) on all the schools he mentioned. Read this site, especially the financial aid section. Look for schools with low total cost of attendance. See if he qualifies for any merit aid at these schools. Also see if he qualifies for financial aid.

The thing is to work with your son on searching for and attending college. Researching, finding, applying, selecting and funding college is a complicated, overwhelming process. No kid should do it on all his or her own if the parents are able to help in any way.

I would not take his desire to leave North Dakota so personally. Many kids his age express the exact same desire. My daughter didn’t look at schools within Maryland (actually she drew a 200 mile radius and says her college had to fall OUTSIDE the circle). Did it hurt? Like a toe stub - initially but not really, because I realized I felt the same way at 18…

Last, do not underestimate your child. Do not put up imaginary obstacles (won’t get in a school with 50% acceptance rate) in addition to the very real ones (won’t pay for college). Your son is bright and with a 3.6 and 30 ACT, he has options and opportunities.

It is perfectly reasonable to set a budget. It is also reasonable to ask your son to study and practice and retake the ACT in hopes of getting a 32 to qualify for free tuition at Alabama. But paying nothing?

14

Your question seems mostly to be about his attitude and how to talk to him. It sounds like to me, you’ve effectively boxed him into almost no choices. Questions from his grandmother about where he’d “like” to go, apparently brought out the reality that from your point of view, there is no “like to go.” Not Grandma’s fault, but it may have started him on the realization that instate is his only choice, given that you might cover a laptop, and that’s it.

I will admit that I find that sad. I understand that a lot of parents who do not qualify for aid can’t full-pay. But you have decided that you won’t even part-pay. So he now knows that even if he makes a choice that loans will cover, he’ll graduate with a lot of debt, presumably from a school he hadn’t wanted to go to.

I can see that would make someone unhappy. I think if I were you, I’d spend more time listening to him, maybe explaining why you won’t pay at all, though your income keeps him from getting FA, and then listening more.

Things being what they are, I expect he’ll come around to reality eventually, but I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect him to be cheery about it.

15

@NDMom123

North Dakota and Minnesota have a tuition reciprocity agreement. i’m pretty sure that means he pays instate tuition for any Minnesota public university
https://www.ndus.edu/students/exchange-reciprocity-programs/

you MUST fill out a FAFSA as soon as it is available. i think beginning this year you can file it in October. it would be a huge mistake to neglect to fill it out b/c you don’t think you will get financial aid. you might be surprised.

does he qualify for a 50% tuition discount from UND as an employee family member? that would make UND tuition $4000/year. would your employee tuition waiver apply to any ND public U or just UND?

i am assuming you live in or near Grand Forks whose metro area is 102,000 people. your son made it sound like you lived in the middle of a wheat field.

if you are pushing for North Dakota schools, and if he can only borrow $5500 freshman year, then this is really the only possibility you are presenting to him:

live at home and commute to UND. that would cost him about $5000/year ($4K tuition after employee family tuition discount + $1K books and supplies). he would graduate with about $20K debt. or he would graduate debt-free is he works during the summers and school year. your contribution would be at least room and board.

otherwise, what are his options? UND will cost $12k per year after the employee tuition discount if he lives on campus. he could work during the school year and summer to pay for what’s left after he maxes out his yearly loan, but it sounds like he would not be very motivated to do that for a school he is not interested in attending.

Minnesota sounds great but it’s $25K per year. if you do not offer him any financial assistance, he cannot pay for the remaining $19K-20K that’s left after he maxes his loan. even if he could borrow more, he would go $100K in debt for a BA or BS.

i am quickly finding out that the big question is not “where can I get accepted” but “how can I afford wherever I get accepted” ?

i do not think it is unreasonable to promote the extremely affordable “live at home and commute to UND” option. he could work summers and school year and easily afford it and graduate debt-free. a debt-free degree is nothing to sneeze at in this day and age. this also gets maximum leverage out of your employee tuition discount and proximity to the university. this is the path we are going with our D and it has worked out great. grants + scholarships have been sufficient to cover all college expenses. our contribution has been room and board, transportation, plus staying on top of all the paperwork.

16

What he can do on his own (with the maximum $5500/year federal student loan and ~$3k work earnings if he gets a summer job) is probably commute to a community college. I’m not sure why you’re finding it so amusing or are surprised that he wants to go somewhere else. I don’t think his stats will qualify for enough merit anywhere that will make the remaining costs affordable.

How do you and your husband expect him to pay for college? He can’t borrow the money.

17

The ONLY place where your son will be able to go to college and pay the bills without YOU either taking or consigning a loan will be be the local community college. He can get a $5500 Direct Loan for that…and continue to live at home.

Or he can continue to live with you and attend U of North Dakota…right?

You are a college professor full time? Does your college participate in tuition exchange…or do you have any other tuition benefits for faculty that can be applied at OTHER colleges?

What CAN you contribute to his college costs? If the answer is nothing…I can understand his frustration.

To be honest…Cal, USC and maybe even OSU are not even slam dunks for admission…never mind aid. Cal no longer gives a cent of need based aid to OOS students. USC merit aid is for higher stats kids. OSU has some good scholarships for OOS kids, but a 30 ACT is a tad on the low side to receive them. And anyway…they would hit bring tie cost down to free…which is what you seem to want.

Look at the links in the first post to the thread I’m going to post below. It has a lot of good information in it. Check EACH college website for current availability of of these awards.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html#latest

It sounds like the bottleneck is that you exoect your son to live with you and attend college for the next four years…and he really wants to go someplace different. Perhaps you can explore some options with him.

18

Does he get free or reduced tuition at UND because you teach there? Since you are teaching for Maryland, could he receive any type of tuition discount there? Have you done any calculators and determined that you really can’t get any aid or afford to pay anything at all, or would you just prefer not to?

Try to understand your son’s desire for a different experience. I didn’t bat an eyelash when my daughter told me se wanted to get away from the spoiled kids and cutthroat atmosphere in the Washington DC burbs and go somewhere more laid back - she wouldn’t even apply to any East Coast schools.

My D was accepted to UMN with a 3.5 GPA and a 30 ACT, so don’t write off you son’s stats. Help him find a way to pay for a school that he wants to go to. I’m surprised that a college professor wouldn’t have given college a thought prior to the summer before her son’s senior year.

19

I would really like to unpack why your son’s desire for a different experience / part of the country bothers you so.

Leave aside money at this point. Leave aside chances of getting in someplace.

If money were no object, would it still bother you if he wanted to go outside of North Dakota?

20

I’ll have to ditto much of what has already been said. You’ve boxed your son in and he has pretty close to no options.
One option is no college and go to work and try to save enough to go later. Enlist. Live with you for several more years to make that happen. No wonder he isn’t talking. Not much to talk about. It’s doable of course but he’s losing a lot by not getting that degree sooner. I would think you would want your son to succeed and help him achieve his goals.
Would love to know why you aren’t helping pay tuition. It’s an investment in your child’s life.
You say he’s your eldest. Not paying for any of them?