Thank you threeofthree, that is a helpful response. How did they find alternative majors? Gen ed classes? Were they in large schools or small schools? Thanks again for your helpful response.
Hey @philabuster - I am a teacher, and I studied art in school. I might be able to provide valuable insight into what your son’s prospective path looks like.
Dear toowonderful, I would love to hear about your college decisions and career path. Thank you.
*Please don’t get into personal tussles with another member on the threads. Either do it in private, or don’t respond at all and report them if you think they have violated the Terms of Service. You just create more of a distraction, and more work for us poor (volunteer) mods.
Back at the start of this thread, there were a couple of posts after only a few hours that questioned if this poster is real. Maybe I am missing something, but I cannot imagine why. We have all read many articles about parents that go much further than this OP in that they think they have the right to pick their kids’ school, their major, and even their romantic partners. We have seen many similar posts with identical opinions on CC. So I am not sure what in the original post set off a warning bell. His questions and concerns were much milder by comparison.
Then there was a post that wondered where the OP had “disappeared to” after one day (!!!). Come on people, not everyone lives on CC like many of us do. It is hardly unreasonable to think that a person might want to give it a few days to generate comments before checking back. Some threads get a lot of quick reaction, some don’t. But bringing that up, while not a ToS violation, doesn’t exactly advance the conversation either. Now two weeks is a different matter, because of course the thread stalls, especially if there are unanswered issues only the OP can address. But then the thread dies, and that is to the OP’s detriment, not yours.
I am not saying the OP is blameless; his snarky responses were uncalled for. It goes both ways. The issue he raises is legitimate and not uncommon at all, so before you post something think about if it contributes to that issue. If not, and if the response you almost made was because of rude behavior, an insult, or something similar that was posted before, then report it instead. In the 16 months I have been moderating, I can say without any hesitation that the response time to reports has been outstanding, even often when it is the middle of the night for much of the USA. Some of us don’t sleep much.
I am not closing the thread, it looks like there might be a bit more to say on the topic. Just please be sure to keep it on topic*
Wouldn’t art by itself be like a typical liberal arts major in terms of number of courses or credits needed (probably around 40% of the total undergraduate course work, though studio courses could be more time consuming than others)? If so, then that leaves plenty of exploration room in other subjects. But if teacher credentialing requirements in the desired state or region require a substantial amount of undergraduate course work, that can cut into the schedule space that can be used for exploration of other subjects.
One of my kids was a misc performance major. It never dawned on me to try to get him to switch to something else. He has both bachelors and masters degrees in performance, and his masters is from a conservatory where, clearly, he wasn’t switching majors. He is working in his field.
The other kid was an engineering major, who picked up a double major in biology. She got that engineering degree. Big deal. She says she will NEVER work in the field of engineering. Never. But again…her choice, not mine.
I still think the OP should let the kid choose. There are plenty of colleges out there that offer a broad range of majors…if the kid wants to switch…fine…if not…in my opinion, that should be fine too.
Too late to edit…that should be music performance…not misc performance!
Here is what Happykid’s university has for Art Ed: http://www.towson.edu/art/undergraduate/arteducation/degreerequirements.asp
http://catalog.towson.edu/undergraduate/fine-arts-communication/art-design-art-history-art-education/art-education/#text
Towson covers the Art program and university Gen Eds in the first four years, and leaves the Education component for the 5th year. Why this instead of a 4 year undergrad degree in Art and a one year MAT I don’t know. Most places would break it down that way. Perhaps it this is to make it a bit easier for the graduates to be hired because they would be at the cheaper BS level in the pay scale. Four of the “Professional Courses” would apply to any education degree. US History is a requirement for MD teacher certification and would count as a Gen Ed for most other majors as would Intro to Psych. Fundamentals of Speech is a university requirement Gen Ed.
What I don’t like about this particular program, is that I don’t see that the students are completing any practicums in the classroom early on. For anyone who thinks that they are interested in teaching, it is important to begin spending time in K-12 classrooms as soon as possible. They also should have opportunities to take classes that will allow them to become certified in other areas. For an Art teacher, solid preparation in Special Education and TESOL is advisable as those students are often mainstreamed into to Art classes.
1st thing to understand is there is no such thing as “genius” based on test scores. Real genius comes from the ability to innovate (create something new that was not thought of before) not rehash training you were taught. So first thing to do is temper your expectations. Proficiency at high school level math/science (which does not even cover the harder courses like calc or chem) is not exactly a great achievement and the other subjects like English and reading are basically worthless to grade (you either can or cant, there is no real way to scale them without extreme bias).
That said, there is nothing wrong with art per se, but art is not something you need to study in college. You can learn everything by simply reading online and practicing (a lot). I would approach the conversation as follows: College is a job not another 4 years of baby sitting you (the student). They are supposed to teach you skills to make you productively desirable in real life so that you can get your own house and pay your bills.
I wouldnt stop them if they decide to get an art degree, some folks have to learn the hard way, but I would just give them my advice and tell them that I would be there for them no matter what (though i would never promise to pay for any college that costs more than $15k per year).
@PhilABuster - I loved art and biology in high school. I wanted to go to art school. I did quite well in school and on the SAT’s, and was “guided” by my guidance counselor to liberal arts. I attended Hamilton College, an excellent, small liberal arts school. Since I had passed out of intro biology (AP test was good enough) I ended up in a genetics class with a bunch of cut-throat pre-med students. I loved talking about ideas, and they just wanted to get “A’s” - I was also the only female in class, which is another story. I ended up majoring in art. Which I loved. However, upon graduating, I did not have the skills which students who had attended art school have. I went back to school, obtained a second undergrad degree, for a grand total of 7 years of undergraduate school. To be an art teacher. I truly love my career choice. (Though if I had known then what I know now, I can imagine going into other design/engineering fields.) While money would most likely be better in other fields, and the status of teaching art is not that high in this society, I make a decent living, live in a community with excellent schools, and spend my day loving my highly demanding job. I strive to meet the needs of over 500 students a week. Teaching doesn’t end when the bell rings - you mull over your students, how to help them grow, and you get to be highly creative in your job, problem solving on a daily basis. It is highly rewarding. At the end of my life, I’d trade those memories for memories of owning more expensive cars.
That being said, I recommend that you listen more to your son. Have you signed him up for any pre-college programs this summer? My daughter went to Ringling’s (College of Art and Design in Sarasota, Fl) pre-college program, and it changed her life. She went in thinking she wanted to be a 3D animator, and left having fallen in love with Motion Graphics. Like your son, it was the teacher who made all the difference. She will be going to Rochester Institute of Technology, which has an excellent art program (fine as well as graphics, glass, animation, etc.). Why not take your son to some art schools that have some interesting technology that also have art teacher preparatory programs? This will 1) expose your son to many different careers in the arts - he hasn’t had much exposure, I am guessing - my daughter’s high school art teacher did not know about the multitude of careers out there besides majoring in fine art - you son’s teacher may have; 2) let you see what some of the programs look like; 3) help your son make informed decisions about his future. It is amazing how different the programs are - we visited quite a few, and the facilities, available technology, career support, student support, etc. are all very different. My daughter decided on RIT because it has amazing facilities, excellent student portfolios, great support for students (health center, housing help, events, etc.) while also helping to meet more of our financial need. They also have great merit grants for grades/scores.
I think that for someone interested in art/art history, it’d be more important to “invest” in a highly-ranked university (Williams, Bryn Mawr, any top 25 university…) than for a student interested in STEM, because their job opportunities will be more tightly linked to the school’s name and “power base” in that area. An engineer attending an ABET accredited state university will not be in the same situation. (That’s assuming the state university doesn’t have a powerful network of its own, although by definition none will match Williams’ :p). So, if you want ROI for art, you need to invest first.
As for OP’s child here, odds are he’ll change his mind. Whether he does or doesn’t, doesn’t matter. Parents shouldn’t tie their investment to the major, especially since students change their minds so often (I read some research that shows it’s actually better to go with “undecided” and make up your mind based on the actual classes you take, grades you receive, and shadowing you do, than based on some lofty idea you have as a high school kid - except for “vocational” majors that require you to know right away and have a strict path to completion, ie., engineering, nursing…) I know some do but pushing a child to major in something they don’t want to major in is unlikely to end well for the relationship and may well also end badly from an academics point of view.
What matters is that the son is academically strong and able to be passionate about something. That matters more than what a rising high school senior thinks he’ll major in.
@MYOS1634 - the OP said the son was interested in teaching art - and a top 25 university is not a requirement. I have taught for 20+ years in affluent public HSs, and most of the people I know in education are graduates of state schools or LACs. That doesn’t make them less intelligent, or passionate, just a trend in education.
I ran into a former neighbor the other day. We chatted about our current lives, and then I asked about one of her children, a particularly intelligent young woman who went to Phillips Exeter and then Harvard. The mom gave me a brilliant, proud smile. “She’s a bilingual elementary school teacher with the city public school system.”
I couldn’t help but be impressed by both mom, and daughter.