Help me choose between Cornell and UPenn ED! [international, 97% GPA, 1510 SAT, computer science]

[nicolexzha]

Would CS still be a good major for IB from Cornell? Or would I need to take something more math and econ related?

[thumper1]

@nicolexzha

UPenn is for need-blind for Canadians, but I’m planning to pay in full. Is paying full at Cornell a large boost for an international whereas it’s not considered for Penn? I know some people say that need blind isn’t actually “need blind”.

At need aware schools (like Cornell will be for your) your level of financial need is what might be considered. If you have no financial need, then you would be full pay anyway…and the college would have no need to fund you at all.

It’s the students that tap sizably into funds at need aware colleges that could encounter admissions issues.

At need blind schools, admissions won’t have any contact with the financial aid office, so admissions won’t know your level of financial need. For you, that would be the case at Penn.

Will you be applying for need based financial aid? If not…there isn’t anything for admissions to know.

[nicolexzha]

I know that lots of people are probably full pay as well, but other people have said that need aware schools tend to choose more full pay intls because they need to make more money and that they would choose a full pay intl over a need aware one.

Since penn is need blind wouldn’t that advantage go away?

[tsbna44]

Since you are a full pay family, you won’t be dinged for needing aid as you won’t qualify.

Even if you apply, if the formula says you are full - it won’t hurt.

[thumper1]

Again I ask…will you be submitting the financial aid applications to either of these colleges? If you don’t…this won’t matter at all because you will be full pay at both schools. Even Steven.

Why do you need or want to apply ED to these colleges? If one is not your clear top choice, then apply RD and choose amongst your acceptances in April.

[nicolexzha]

ED typically has a higher acceptance rate despite legacies and recruited athletes and I would much rather go to a school in the US than Canada even if it’s not my #1 choice.

No, I’m not submitting finaid

[MirandaKnight]

@thumper1

Again I ask…will you be submitting the financial aid applications to either of these colleges? If you don’t…this won’t matter at all because you will be full pay at both schools. Even Steven.

At Penn, since they are need blind, not having need won’t matter since they don’t consider one’s need but at a need-aware school, the amount of need does matter. In other words, not applying for financial aid or even applying but having little or no need should be advantageous compared to those with lots of need who are also applying all else being equal - though often all else is not equal.

[thumper1]

@nicolexzha you are not even applying for need based aid. So…forget about this. You will be expected to be full pay.

[nicolexzha]

So admission chances to Cornell should in theory be higher because I’m not applying for need, correct? I looked at admissions statistics regarding Cornell ED and almost all of the international acceptances were for little to no need

[thumper1]

Your financial need will not be considered at either school…because you have zero financial need. This is a non-issue for someone who isn’t even sending in the financial aid forms.

[aunt_bea]

@DadOfJerseyGirl

What will make finding a job hard for you is that you’re not a US citizen. Your school’s physical location doesn’t matter much, and of course, Cornell is a very well known school.

Agree.
There are domestic students that will be employed before you because they have citizenship. You would have to be sponsored in whatever field you choose.

You really shouldn’t pick a school based upon which citizens have been employed by which feeders. You need to pick a school where you will be comfortable, is affordable for your family and where you fit the “vibe”. YOU will live there for 4 years, so you need to find a school that has your program and where you can thrive.

So, your family is okay with a $70K+ to $90K+ per year cost? That’s a lot of money to get a CS degree that you can get from a State university for less dollars.

As a non-citizen, there is no guarantee that you will be sponsored by a US employer, so you have to make sure that the companies where you apply in Canada, will accept your degree from an American university.

Once your student visa expires on graduation day, you are expected to return home to your country. You may receive an OPT for an additional year or two of practical experience but that isn’t guaranteed.

Sponsorship is tough and the rules have changed. Being female, is not going to change your visa status.

[nicolexzha]

Isn’t a TN visa really simple for companies to sponsor though? Especially for big tech and finance companies they’re familiar with how Canadian sponsorships work and they’re not too expensive or complicated for the company.

[SJ2727]

TN visas are limited to certain jobs with specific degrees/qualifications pertaining to those. Yes, if employers are used to using them they are easy. The question is whether those are the jobs you’d be interested in/qualified for with the specific degree you end up with.

[DadOfJerseyGirl]

And a TN visa doesn’t provide permanent residency. At some point, the employer has to be willing to sponsor you for a green card. Whether they will or not depends on a number of factors including the state of the economy. If you’re working in a field that has a shortage of U.S. workers you are more likely to find a sponsor, vs a field that has no dearth of well qualified Americans.

[happy1]

It seems to me that you are spending too much time trying to find some infinitesimal advantage in applying to one school versus the other. The fact remains that both are reaches for any unhooked applicant and nothing will change that.

I suggest you use ED for the college YOU most want to attend (location, academics, etc.) and direct your energies towards crafting the best application possible.

[ucbalumnus]

@aunt_bea

So, your family is okay with a $70K+ to $90K+ per year cost? That’s a lot of money to get a CS degree that you can get from a State university for less dollars.

Or UBC or other low cost university in Canada…

[NiceUnparticularMan]

In the US, it is typically less about your major than the courses you take, your grades, maybe networking through profs, internships, how you interview, and so on.

[Mwfan1921]

@nicolexzha

Would CS still be a good major for IB from Cornell?

Here’s a post from a senior US IB exec regarding international students getting IB analyst jobs in the US. The good thing is there are IB jobs in Canada. Noting you can major in just about anything and work in IB, assuming relatively strong quant skills.

New York University Early Decision for Fall 2024 Admission

If a work visa is required IBs will not sponsor junior staff. Since the Trump administration toughened up the scrutiny of these applications it has become very costly and often rejected unless a specific skill that is unique to the applicant and unavailable locally is proven. For analyst level this is a bit of a non starter. Best shot would be to apply to a global CIB in your home country and acquire targeted skills with the eventual hope of being sent to the US on a secondment and localized. A tough path with uncertainty unfortunately.

[MirandaKnight]

Not sure you can draw that conclusion. For instance, it’s possible that many full pay students draw the same conclusion so they all choose to apply hoping to increase their odds which then leads to more applications, driving down the admit rate.

My suggestion would be to pick the school you prefer and not try to game the system by trying to figure out which would be easier to get into. Consider this - if you got into your ED school but it was not your favorite you might always wonder whether you would have gotten in to your favorite if you had just tried. Personally, I disagree with the entire ED premise but if you are going to apply ED, then it seems best to commit to the one you think is the best fit for you.

[aunt_bea]

@nicolexzha

Isn’t a TN visa really simple for companies to sponsor though? Especially for big tech and finance companies they’re familiar with how Canadian sponsorships work and they’re not too expensive or complicated for the company.

You are making a lot of assumptions and are trying to “game the system.”

Let me clarify a couple of things:

1. A “need blind” school means that the school is BLIND to your NEED for funding.

The admissions committee has no clue that you are applying for FA and does not look at whether you need dollars. They are BLIND to your application because they don’t receive the financial aid information.
A NEED AWARE school is AWARE that you NEED dollars to attend. If they don’t have the money, you may not get in because they can’t afford you.

2. You’re making an assumption that any US employer will sponsor you for a TN visa. That’s not the case. You have to assume that you will return to your country without an offer of employment. It may happen, but it may not happen.
   I was under the assumption that a TN visa requires that you retain your ties to your country, expecting to return there. Otherwise the TN isn’t approved.

3. I have three family members who are employed in the tech industry.

Two are computer software and computer engineering employees. The third is an electrical engineer. None of the three are at companies that are currently sponsoring visas for international CS applicants.

Part of the reason is that they need employees that will qualify for security clearances. The other reason is that they are getting CS applicants who are US citizens. When you look at these large corporations, go on their main webpages and note that they will say, “We are currently not sponsoring noncitizen applicants”.

Before you make your plans, consider that you need to make sure that you can afford the school and that you like the school and that it meets your needs, as well as theirs.

You shouldn’t even be considering your immigration future plans because you don’t know what will happen in the future. Right now, one step at a time: get your education. Pick a school based on your individual needs, not factoids on acceptances nor trying to game the system.

Your parents will be paying a heck of a lot of money for a school that you may not like and will make you miserable for 4 years…