I am trying to decide what college I want to make my home for the next 4 years of my life.
A little about me: I am a Computer Science major; I am used to cold weather, so it doesn’t bother me, but also wouldn’t mind living under the sun; I play football and I wrestle, but I don’t know whether or not I would continue playing in college; I love people – I want to go somewhere that I can meet people and become lifelong friends.
I am a very ~go with the flow~ type of person. Because of that, I find it incredibly difficult to choose between the three amazing choices that I have – seriously any help is welcome!!
@FastRabbit3 - I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again - many students change their mind. If you go to Northwestern, you can easily switch to a non-engineering subject like English, Economics, Political Science, etc. If you change your mind at the other tech-focused programs like HMC and RPI and want to switch to the social sciences or humanities, it will be a lot harder. Also, on a national level, Northwestern is significantly more prominent / prestigious than the other 2 options, which are virtually unknown schools in the public domain. Yes, a few people will have heard of Harvey Mudd but the majority of even educated people have no clue about these small LACs. I think it is a no brainer for Northwestern. NU’s acceptance rate last year was 8.4% and this year, it is 8.9%. Source: https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/04/03/campus/northwestern-acceptance-rate-rises-for-first-time-in-10-years/
Also, I know rankings are not everything but the harsh reality is that the majority of people are very unfamiliar with LAC schools (even Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore and Middlebury). They look at the top 25 in US News (national universities) and the rest is “irrelevant.” The LAC rankings are disregarded by most people. I cannot tell you how many people (even very educated people such as doctors and lawyers) have no clue what these schools are, including Williams and Amherst. If you want to compare apples to apples, I would say the top 5 LACs (on US news) are comparable to the top 10-12 universities on US News. After that, the other top 15-20 LACs are comparable to the US News ranked colleges that are between 20-40. If Harvey Mudd was ranked in the same arena as the large universities, it would be ranked likely from 30-50. Instead, it is 18 on the LAC ranking. Northwestern is top 10 on the national US News list with the big competitors (all ivy leagues, etc.) and ranks ahead of Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth.
If prestige is any bit important to you, Northwestern is the logical choice. With the other 2 names (RPI and HMC), you are going to get blank stares from 99% of people around the country when you say where you went to college. That is the harsh reality. Northwestern is a much larger university with significantly more alumni on the coasts (both east and west), more resources, a MUCH larger endowment (top 10 in the country), more accomplished alumni in all fields (Entertainment, Law, Business, Finance, etc). And not to mention, your academic and social experience will be A LOT better at Northwestern, which has a more well rounded student body and experience. Also, BIG 10 sports and close proximity to Chicago are major positives. Northwestern is just in a different league than the other 2 options. Congratulations on your acceptances.
Have you visited NW or Mudd? Most students would have a preference after doing that. I’d take RPI off the list, certainly would not pay more to go there than Mudd!
Personally, I think Mudd is the much better choice for a CS major. But you’ve got to be ready to work really hard, too. It is a combination of cooperative and intense that you won’t find anyplace else. My kid was a Mudder (from the Midwest, so pretty far awsy) and adored it, she would not have wanted to go anyplace else. Also, NW is not more prestigious in CS or engineering.
@momofsenior1 - outside of CS or Engineering circles, you will get blank stares. Even with CS or Engineering circles, you will get some blank stares. People on this website overestimate the appeal / reach of these LAC schools. Harvey Mudd is a very tiny LAC-focused engineering school with no prominent PhD programs or grad programs. Northwestern has very prominent PhD programs (and grad programs in law, business and medicine) and has world-class faculty across all disciplines that conduct cutting-edge research that is highly publicized. Have you heard of Lyrica, which has made Pfizer billions of dollars? It was INVENTED at Northwestern in the chemistry department. Harvey Mudd does not have a single top 10 faculty or research ranking. I am sorry but this is not even close. If this was Cal Tech, I could understand. And not to mention, the student experience will be more well balanced at Northwestern compared to these other 2. And let’s consider applications to be a rough barometer for national appeal / interest - Northwestern received over 40,000 applications. Harvey Mudd received less than 5,000. The interest / demand for a school like Harvey Mudd is significant less than Northwestern. These are all great schools but I strongly feel that Northwestern will provide more brand prestige and a better return on investment combined with a better experience.
Harvey Mudd is an undergraduate university. No graduate programs.
HMC is ranked #1 for CS for schools without grad programs.
NU’s CS ranking is #40.
I live near NU. I ADORE the area and the university. It’s an amazing university. That said, I still think HMC is the place to go for CS over NU. Frankly I would have said UIUC would be better for CS than NU.
You do make a valid point if a student is sure about CS or engineering, then NU would give more flexibility in switching majors.
PS. The only relevant circles are those that will be hiring OP.
@momofsenior1 - the fact that you think UIC is a better option than Northwestern (or Duke or Penn, etc) for CS is confusing to me. The opportunities coming out of these bigger brand name schools is abundant. The alumni networks are extremely strong and open a lot of doors. A student at Northwestern can major in English and still get an investment banking job. An engineering student at Northwestern can go work at McKinsey OR apple, google, facebook, etc OR an industry conglomerate or tech company. These opportunities are not available to kids at Harvey Mudd or RPI or UIC. They will be stuck in solely engineering conglomerates. Again, with the high rate of a student changing his/her mind from engineering to something else, Northwestern is a MUCH safer option. Plus it is a much more recognizable university and brand - it is not even close.
And regarding the student’s aspiration to meet friends for life, Northwestern is A MUCH BETTER option. You will have students across many disciplines from engineering to music to journalism to math to science to etc. and from all parts of the country. Northwestern (Duke, etc.) draw students from the entire U.S. including international students. The experience will broaden the student’s horizons in ways that a small LAC cannot do. Northwestern will also be more “fun” than the other 2 - I don’t think that can be debated.
I cannot fathom that someone would choose these 2 other options over Northwestern if $ is not an issue. And given that the Cost is roughly the same, this is a no brainer option.
OP - Don’t get caught up in “prestige”. If you know what you want to study, go with the school that offers the strongest academics. Do your own due diligence!
@StanfordGSB00 UIUC has the #5 ranked CS program in the country. They are a powerhouse for CS. Their students absolutely do go on to work at all the top companies you listed and start ups.
Unsurprisingly, by general standardized scoring measures, Northwestern falls somewhat lower than Harvey Mudd and somewhat higher than RPI. However, in what may be unexpected, the tech-oriented HMC also indicates a higher profile than Northwestern in the language oriented sections of the ACT and SAT.
Lots of protests from a person who had probably never set foot on the Mudd campus and has to pump themselves up with a “prestige” college as part of their user name. I notice that most of your past posts seem to be promoting NW and putting other schools down in the process. Mostly apparently based on ranking, not any actual knowledge of the other schools.
Here are a few things that haven’t been discussed. NW tends to have more of a preprofessional atmosphere. Mudd is more tech/intellectual. You get the bonus of the Claremont Consortium at Mudd, where you can easily take classes on the other campuses. They are right adjacent to each other - my kid took at least one class on the other campuses every semester starting soph year (after core). She liked having the breadth of the consortium with the small school feeling of Mudd. And my kid didn’t choose it for this reason, but she did end up loving the weather.
Plenty of Mudders turn down higher ranked schools. My kid turned down a top 5 national university and a couple of higher ranked LACs because she loved the Mudd vibe and it was strongest in what she wanted to study. I would not let rankings influence you at all. Mudd is well respected by employers and grad schools. I think the only reason they don’t get a higher ranking among LACs is the limited number of majors.
At Mudd you’ll get great research and internship opportunities, and lots of attention from full faculty who don’t have grad students to take the attention away or buffer between you and the faculty. My kid had more opportunities than she knew what to do with - she said the hard part was choosing because there was so much interesting stuff going on. She thought her profs and many of her fellow students were brilliant. She is in grad school now, but still communicates at least a couple times a month with her undergrad research advisor. It is a close knit place, and pretty unique.
Mudd is basically the less research oriented version of CalTech. It’s a very specialized (or special?) and intense place with grads earning good money in tech. Northwestern is much more traditional and diverse. It really depends on what you want out of college.
Agree, although I actually don’t think Mudd is less research focused than Caltech in hardly any noticeable way to an undergrad. My kid researched starting summer after frosh year, and every summer after & during the school year. Worked in two different labs (she switched majors & switched labs then). She got to work with one of the national laboratories on projects, and ended up with 2 author spots on papers with them (3rd from undergraduate period is pending publication right now). Also attended major national conferences, and presented at a couple of conferences.
Mudders aren’t all tech all the time, though. They all have non-tech secondary concentrations. My kid loves poetry & literature, so she pursued those. One of her friends did history. She had a lot of friends who were excellent musicians, too.
HMC, absolutely no question at all, especially when considering that it’s cheaper. It is an absolutely amazing place with amazing opportunities. We toured it with our D because my wife know people there and we were already visiting Pomona. Not the right place for my D, since they do not have her majors. However, for anybody who wants to do an undergraduate in engineering, there are few places that can compare.
@catocato the data they used for the article is definitely out of date, and the software they used was also likely inaccurate even then. The actual top 10 feeder schools for Silicon valley are, based on better data from HiringSolved:
University of California, Berkeley
Stanford University
Carnegie Mellon University
University of Southern California
The University of Texas at Austin
Georgia Institute of Technology
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
San Jose State University
University of California, San Diego
Arizona State University
I would not expect HMC to be there, not because it’s not as good, but because it’s so much smaller, having only about 850 students total. It also has one of the highest proportion of engineering students who go on to do a PhD, which is why it is less of a feeder school for Silicon Valley than the engineering schools on the list (that is likely true for MIT and Princeton as well).
Yes, my D has lots of friends in Silicon Valley now. Regarding the secondary concentrations,not all the courses need to be taken through the Mudd HSA department. My kid took British literature & TS Eliot courses on the other campuses as part of her secondary concentration.
I’d take RPI off the list, not worth the higher price.
The culture seemed to us more nerdish, very STEM-oriented in HMC, although you can mix with the other colleges’ crowd. NU felt to me like it had more students who were athletic, preprofessional, rich white kid type (not that there’s anything wrong with it :)). Although I’m sure NU has its share of nerds. Academically both are great, so if you visited both campuses you can go with your gut feeling.