Help me pick a school please (sociology + political science) [pre-law; WIlliams, Bowdoin, Vassar, Swarthmore, Georgetown]

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hello! i’m really struggling on picking a college to attend. i’m interested in sociology and political science, on a pre-law track. i’m really into liberal arts colleges but want the best placement for law school. i’ve never been in a rural environment before, so i’m not sure how that’ll go if i choose a rural school and i’m a little nervous about it. all colleges are giving essentially the same financial aid package (a great one!)

more about myself: i would consider myself a pretty alternative person (i’m involved in my local punk music scene and love all that type of stuff). i love quirky people! i’m a little nervous about the preppy, new england type as i’m low income and didn’t grow up around many of that type (i’m from a pretty alternative city)

my options are as follows:

  • williams college (i love the tutorials, oxford study abroad, the single dorms, and the hundreds of resources)
  • bowdoin college (fell in love with the campus when i visited, had the coolest people)
  • vassar college (open curriculum, omg!)
  • swarthmore college (city life! scared of it being too hard academically)
  • georgetown (so different from the rest and i’m a little scared of it, but idk if it’s stupid to turn down the offer if i wanna go to law school and it has great placement)
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All great options. Congrats! Assuming they are all affordable just go with your personal preference. Happy students tend to be successful students.

Sounds to me like you prefer Williams, Bowdoin, and Vassar so I’d choose from those. Can you go back for accepted student days?

FWIW I don’t think Gtown would provide any additional boost for law school admissions compared to the LACs you are considering. Wherever you go strive for a strong GPA, study for the LSATs, and get involved on campus. Also note that a number of students take a gap year or two and work between undergrad and law school.

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thanks that’s super helpful! i’m going to go visit all. i’ll be there for bowdoin, swarthmore, and gtown’s admitted students day and then taking a tour at williams (their day coincides with others so i won’t be there but i will tour)

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Swarthmore is NOT in a city! It is in a cute little upper middle class village, with a suburban commuter train ride (very safe) into Philly.

If you want to do anything with federal government policy, government law, I’d pick Georgetown. The opportunities to intern year round on Capitol Hill or in government policy offices are unbeatable. It is in a very nice area of DC.

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With Gtown I would take a look at the core curriculum and be sure you are Ok with it. Typically the core curriculum at Jesuit colleges will be fairly extensive.

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My DS’s choice came down to GTown and Bowdoin. Like you, he was drawn to liberal arts colleges. He chose Bowdoin on the grounds that he will do grad school later on at a large university, so this is his only chance to benefit from what a small liberal arts college offers. He couldn’t be happier.

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Vassar would probably be the best “fit” in terms of student body (aka less preppy, more funky) and the campus is SO gorgeous. Huge fan of the open curriculum. Amazing to get to pick classes you want, rather than ones you need. I’m an alum and my son will be going in the fall!

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Before finishing your opening post and seeing your actual choices, I’d thought that Vassar would make a good match for you based on your academic interests and other criteria. As I read to the end, I was glad to see that Vassar is, in fact, an option for you.

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I think you can go to any four year college in America and get to any law school in America. Your grades, your LSAT (especially), what you do - will matter.

It’s no wonder 147 colleges are represented in Harvard Law’s first year class of over 500, Yale has had 169 colleges in it’s 2020-2024 classes (so yes, even the Youngstown States of the world go to these schools), and Penn has kids from 239 schools in its law school.

So what I’m saying is - take law school out of the equation - and go to the school that is best for you - affordability and feel, etc.

If you’re unsure about rural, then maybe pick a suburban one with more access to a city - this way you’re not rural, but you’re also not urban.

That would lead Bowdoin, Vassar, and Swat - which I wouldn’t say is city life unless you take the train into the city.

Gtown is very different - and if you want that bigger school - then that’s great too.

In the end, college is about exploring and growing - and you can do so from any of these.

And you can go to a top law school from any of these - and any of any other college ten rungs down on the pedigree scale too.

Wonderful options here for you - and five different people might have five different answers - and that’s totally reasonable.

Which feels the best to you? Which said, I’m home - from the write up above, it sounds like Bowdoin (and it’s not rural but also not urban - so bonus perhaps).

Good luck whatever you decide.

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Congratulations. You sound like a perfect fit for Vassar based on how you describe yourself.

All of your options are considered highly competitive schools and place well to graduate and specifically law school. Please see below.

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This should also give you an idea of the concentration of students from some undergraduate schools into elite law schools. Please note 287 students from the Ivies and an extra 50+ from Stanford, Duke and UC. That means that greater than 50% of Yale’s law students attended only 11 undergraduate schools that are relatively small in terms of number of students. For further context consider Vassar had 2 of 2,500 and Bowdoin 5 of 2,000 students attending Yale while a huge school like U Alabama had only 2 of 40,000.

Yes, you can get in from anywhere (particularly the top LACs like your options) but it is much more an exception from non elite schools. An aspiring elite law student shouldn’t ignore the importance of undergraduate pedigree because the stats don’t lie, it matters.

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Another Vassar grad here. A number of my classmates attended top law school and several became judges. If you don’t want remote, IMO Bowdoin is a bit remote. Several hours by car or train to Boston from Maine. Vassar is about 80 miles give or take to New York City but Bowdoin is almost twice that to Boston.

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We have been to both Vassar and Williams (others were not on S24s list and he applied ED to Williams and is atrending). He also loved the tutorials, the housing options and he is a musician so that was a big appeal. The vibe at Vassar was definitely different. It is about 90 minutes by train from NYC and there was a lot of talk about Broadway tickets and traveling in NYC as opposed to Williams where they talked about outdoors. We live in the suburbs of a big city and S24 loved the rural location of Williams but it did not seem isolated since there is a medium sized city nearby. Seems you can’t make a wrong choice and enjoy your visits!

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I think there are subtleties in highly selective law school admission that are sometimes overlooked, and I think some of those subtleties actually often favor going to a LAC with a relatively loose structure in terms of required courses, as well as offering ease of switching between majors.

Not to be crude about it, but your GPA tends to really matter, and to the extent you can more quickly identify and focus on courses where you can get really good grades, that is potentially going to be helpful. Or sometimes not, sometimes people get the grades they need anyway at a school with a bigger core, or in their original major, or so on. But I think the schools with a more flexible structure give you a bigger margin for error.

Georgetown is an interesting case in that it is true it places above its normal ranking in terms of top law school placements per capita. But in a way this is sort of a version of what I think of as the Hopkins problem. Hopkins does the same for medical school, but when you really start thinking about it, do they schools place as well as they should given all that? Like, a bunch of other colleges–including LACs like the ones you are considering–ALSO place about as well (sometimes even better) for med school as Hopkins, AND about as well (sometimes better) for law schools as Georgetown, AND in top PhD programs in various fields, and so on. And I think what is happening here is that the internal competition at a Hopkins or a Georgetown for their perceived area of placement strength is actually off the charts intense, and while that works out well for some, it does not necessarily work out well for everyone who starts at such colleges with such ambitions, and that again becomes a type of margin of error issue.

So personally, I think there is a lot of potential value in choosing a college which is not so much a specialist but nonetheless has a good placement record across a variety of different fields.

Finally, I also agree what you are describing outside of law school ambitions really seems to be pointing to Vassar. As others are saying, it seems like the best sort of vibe/culture/mix for you off the bat, and it is also less isolated if you need an occasional break from the LAC bubble. And personally, I am completely confident that assuming the same academic record and LSAT, Vassar will place as well for law schools as any of your other options, so . . . seems like that could be a great choice all around.

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I love Williams and congrats to your son but there is no medium-sized city anywhere nearby. Vassar does have easyish access to NYC (both Amtrak and commuter rail run from Poughkeepsie though the ride is close to 90 minutes) but my impression is most kids go once or twice a year if that. Most college campuses are pretty self-contained unless located in a true urban area, which neither of those schools are.

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Albany is about an hour and North Adams with a huge museum and shopping is 20 minutes. And I totally agree with you that most students don’t leave campus much. We were not impressed by Vassar at all but my son’s vibe is very different than OPs. I am sure OP will be successful anywhere.

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Yes Albany is a medium-sized city but no way to get there unless you have a car and even then it’s an hour drive. North Adams’ population is less than 13,000 so barely a city at all :). But I suspect those who attend Williams aren’t looking for city life.

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Hoping to stay on topic for the OP and their specific questions. They aren’t considering some of the schools being discussed.

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In my mind, Brunswick is less isolated than Poughkeepsie. Not only does it have a lot all its own (and a great breakfast at a nearby grocery store of all places)., it’s a half hour to Portland - which has everything and then some.

So to me, it’s far less isolated than Poughkeepsie. That said, I’m not comparing to NYC access or Boston access - just access to a major city with anything one would need, including an airport or as they call it a jetport.

But all good points for OP who seemed to maybe find their type of people at Bowdoin but did love the curriculum at Vassar.

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Have you ever been to Poughkeepsie? No clue if Portland’s airport handles many direct flights from major airports. Many Vassar students fly to airports in NY (eg LaGuardia ) or to Westchester or to Newburgh. Plenty of ways to get there. And while Poughkeepsie has its ups and downs, it IS a city. No need to drive a half hour to GET to a city. That is the definition of remote!

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Yes - six or 8 times actually. We used to go from Brewster - where my best friend in college is from.

But my comment was not that Poughkeepsie is bare or rural at all.

It was related to everyone says it’s less isolated because you can hop a train to NYC.

My comment was simply - you can also get that city feel with a 30 minute trip to Portland - which also gives you a big city feel (yes, it’s smaller but feels larger) and has great nature - take a ferry to Peaks Island, have lunch and bike, etc…

You noted Vassar is 80 miles-ish to NYC while Bowdoin is double that to Boston (it’s actually 137).

But it’s 30 minutes from Bowdoin to Portland (but I don’t believe a train).

And I was simply noting that Portland is a real city and far closer to Bowdoin than NYC is to Vassar.

No one said Pougheepsie is not a city…but you’d have to make that same comment about Brunswick as well - also a city with anything you need.