Help my junior make a list: small class size, good STEM (CS/math/bio) and research opportunities, blue states, <$40K with need-based aid

College Search & Lists
1

My junior needs ideas for schools to research. Probably a CS or applied math major, but into molecular biology as well and wants the school to be good in all 3. She is interested in applying data skills to science stuff – likes probability math and data analysis/visualization type projects.

Her top criteria is interaction with professors: small class sizes and hopefully opportunities to do research projects with them.

Schools need to be in blue states or friendly countries (kid is trans, so this is a non-negotiable safety thing), but doesn’t care about location otherwise.

We’re low income and would qualify for a lot of need-based aid, so schools that give it would be great. Also has a grandparent college fund that could pay maybe up to $40K per year.

Shy quirky geek who likes board games and role playing and wilderness stuff, and who will have a very different background than most kids (rural AK), so it’d be nice if the culture was friendly and welcoming.

The small class size criteria make me think liberal arts school, but kid isn’t super into the humanities (dislikes writing and lit analysis, though enjoys most social sciences), and would take all STEM classes if she could.

A small tech school might be a good option too, but she’d want to be sure they were still good for pure sciences, and she’s not an engineering build-physical-stuff type kid.

Admissions wise, she hasn’t taken the SAT yet, but has gotten 4s and a 5 on her AP tests and has done a lot of advanced course work (on her 3rd post-calculus math class, took all the AP sciences and is now doing a DE class, a lot of self-led CS classes)

1 Like
2

Movement Advancement Project | Snapshot: LGBTQ Equality by State can give a more detailed look at this subject. Click on the gender identity tab to see how states compare on trans-specific issues. Click on a state to see specific state policies used in the scoring.

Check the net price calculator on each school of interest to see whether it may give sufficient financial aid.

As AK residents, your student may be eligible for WUE discounts (tuition at 1.5 times in-state) at less selective public schools in western region states (see https://www.wiche.edu/tuition-savings/wue/wue-list-of-schools/ ). Whether that produces a net price of $40k or less per year depends on the school.

Class size depends on major and class level. Some majors are more popular than others (depending on the school, CS and biology can be large majors), so class sizes are likely to be larger in those majors. Class sizes are typically larger at the frosh/soph level than at the junior/senior level.

Liberal arts colleges are not necessarily humanities and social science focused. Their general education requirements can range from none to extensive, just like other colleges.

Scientists do have to be skilled at writing on science subjects (which is different from writing for literary analysis as is the norm in English courses), including adaptation to scientific versus general readers.

If smaller colleges, particularly liberal arts colleges without graduate programs, are considered, be sure to check whether they have enough upper level offerings in the subjects of interest to ensure that an advanced student does not run out of courses (math is probably the subject where this is most likely to be a concern).

What do the student’s grades or unweighted GPA look like? That can help others suggest reasonable-for-admission (and scholarships) colleges to consider.

4 Likes
3

I sometimes like to use the phrase “Liberal Arts and Sciences Colleges” because in fact a lot of LACs actually have really strong natural science and math departments. What is much rarer (although not impossible to find) are LACs with engineering. But something like CS, Applied Math, Data Science, or so on is (these days) much easier to find at LACs.

I think some non-STEM, aka HASS, is good for everyone, but I also think for kids who might be concerned about taking HASS classes they don’t find at all interesting, the key is to look for colleges with a more flexible curriculum.

The most flexible is what is known as an “open curriculum”. One thing to understand about such colleges, though, is the more selective ones at least tend to not favor applicants who think of their open curriculum as an opportunity to take a narrow range of classes. They more want applicants who see it as an opportunity to pursue diverse interests in a highly customized way.

The next-most-flexible systems are some sort of distributional system, where you have different areas you need to do, but the exact classes you do in those areas is up to you. This is sort of a sliding scale sort of thing where some distributional systems are more flexible than others, so ultimately you would want to look at the details.

With those thoughts in mind, some “blue state” universities I would recommend checking out would include Brown, Rochester, RPI, and WPI.

In terms of LACs, Harvey Mudd and Pomona, Amherst, Carleton, Wesleyan, Vassar, Macalester, St Olaf, and Bard.

I’d also ask if she had any interest in women’s colleges. There are some great ones that could be suitable for her interests, including all of Wellesley, Smith, and Mount Holyoke.

7 Likes
4

But note that Harvey Mudd has an extensive core curriculum listed at HMC Common Core - Harvey Mudd College - Modern Campus Catalog™ , plus a requirement to take 10 additional humanities, social studies, and/or arts courses as described at Academic Program - Harvey Mudd College - Modern Campus Catalog™ .

2 Likes
5

That is correct, but the common core at Mudd is mostly STEM stuff, except for a writing class (which typically even “open” schools have), a “STEM and Social Impact” course, and a single “critical inquiry” HASS course. Then the rest of their HASS stuff (they say HSA) follows more of a distributional model:

I note you have to take some of those at Mudd, but you can also take some at other Claremont Colleges, which really expands out the options.

I also note their version of distributional requirements includes one of my personal favorite sorts of things, a “concentration” requirement which is intended to promote exploring a diverse interest in a bit of depth, sort of like a mini-minor. This is also a thing at Rochester, and various other colleges.

That sort of concentration requirement may not be as pleasing to everyone as it is to me, though, so this is a good example of a situation where before this kid actually applied to Mudd, they would want to make sure this was a curriculum structure they liked.

3 Likes
6

Grades: As so far, but this probably means less because kid is homeschooled. (she’s gotten from A+ to A- in her handful of online courses, but school doesn’t report +/-). Her transcript will come from an official public school program, with a rank and weight and everything because she’s officially a correspondence school student (an AK thing) even though they don’t provide any classes – and I have no idea how colleges will see that. She’ll also have a grade from her online college genetics class, and probably something else in Spring, but not yet.

Core curriculum: I know science people need to write too, and have said that over and over. She grudgingly agrees, but doesn’t like it. She prefers flexibility, e.g. “take 3 classes each in these three areas” vs “take 9 classes with 9 different specific focus areas”

Women’s colleges: She might be, but I haven’t brought it up, because I’d be afraid they’d change the rules (or be forced to change them) and kick her out. She’s not legally female, and now is not the time to get on anyone’s radar by trying to change that.

Costs: I’ve looked at a few price calculators. All the “meets need” type schools are awesome for us, and most that give some need-based aid seem to be OK so far, but I’ll obviously check that. I haven’t looked at WUE schools yet, since I think most public schools would be large and not fit her class size/prof interaction request.

2 Likes
7

She’s advanced in math - so a Brown might be good. Rochester as a safer Brown. With no test, it’s hard to truly know where she’ll fit. And yes to the Claremont schools. And Brandeis.

Are you under $65k a year - could Questbridge be an option?

You can’t tie research etc to small schools - many schools offer tons of opportunity. Just ask.

W&M could be good - if Virginia works. UMD could be great as could UMASS and take advantage of the consortium. Pitt too. Al three will have Honors possibilities too. While not inexpensive, you noted a $40k grandma fund.

Chicago for another reach. Northwestern too.

Look at the CDS section I3 for class size distribution but given specific majors, you may be unfairly dismissing certain schools - especially within major classes.

8

My thought as well, and I’d add Scripps to that list. They now have a Data Science major that could be a good fit. If the student likes a lot of what Mudd offers but doesn’t want to commit to their heavy core curriculum, Scripps (which is mere steps from the Mudd campus) allows access in a more flexible context, although there are a few non-negotiable humanities classes in the first 2 years.

On the open curriculum front, I’d check out Hamilton.

WUE-wise, Cal Poly Humboldt is a larger school but is still pretty good on the class-size front, and has many ways of making a big school smaller - one example is first-year learning communities like this one: Representing Realities | Cal Poly Humboldt Here’s an example of research that could be up her alley: Modeling Microglia: Students Bridge Math and Biology to Decode Alzheimer’s | Humboldt NOW | Cal Poly Humboldt Both the school and the area are welcoming to trans students; I personally know at least three trans kids who have had good experiences there. Gender Inclusive Housing | Cal Poly Humboldt

Western Washington U in Bellingham could be another great WUE option, but it’s competitive to get the WUE rate there, so it will depend on her stats whether that’s a viable option. Oregon State is another that doesn’t give WUE to everyone, but it’s a little less restricted than WWU. Colorado State is another WUE school that could be worth a look, although the surrounding area isn’t as progressive as Denver/Boulder; maybe the CSU parents here can comment on trans-friendliness there. Colorado College meets full need and is known for its one-course-at-a-time block plan, which might or might not appeal.

Portland State is both large and commuter-heavy, but has some nice residential sub-communities in the dorms. You’d be hard-pressed to find a more trans-friendly city than Portland. There would be no question about getting the WUE rate, and this program might be of interest: Biomedical Informatics | Portland State University As far as private colleges in Portland, you could check out both Lewis & Clark and Reed, but I am not sure whether either would be a good fit. There’s also Willamette in Salem, which is quite generous with merit.

Occidental College, in LA, meets need and has a computational biology lab, plus there’s a cross-registration agreement with Caltech. Whitman College, in WA, isn’t in the most progressive part of the state, but I’d still expect Walla Walla to compare favorably with rural Alaska. Harnessing the Power of Data in the Sciences | Whitman College Whitman gives both need aid and merit, and will do a financial pre-read so you can see whether it’s worth applying.

Good luck - you might want to do a formal “chance me” thread with stats, etc. so that folks can fine-tune the recommendations accordingly.

1 Like
9

I understand the concern, but I very much doubt that these colleges will be kicking anyone out. One of the speakers at my kid’s Scripps commencement was a trans guy who transitioned in college, and even though the school doesn’t admit students who identify as male when applying, they have absolutely no issue with any changes that occur later. This student received the biggest ovation of the day and was obviously loved by all. Even if admissions policies change in the future (which I doubt they will), once you’re in , you’re in.

10

A college where required writing courses allow those focused on writing about science (versus literary analysis) may make such writing courses more interesting and relevant to the student.

Rochester does have distribution requirements (at least 3 courses in each of humanities, social science, and science), unlike Brown.

11

For this combination of interests, consider colleges with an available major in data science.

Colleges with open curricula, including some liberal arts colleges, allow this or virtually allow this. At these schools, limited writing requirements might be met, or partially met, with proof-based math courses, such as linear algebra.

12

Wesleyan checks a lot of boxes, including the only doctoral program in mathematics among the colleges mentioned so far (Brown and Rochester probably do, too.)

EDIT: There should be no shortage of advanced classes.

1 Like
13

If you are in AK and don’t want a huge travel expense, consider Reed college. As for grandparents contribution, of you are looking at maximum need based aid, save their contribution for her senior year. Otherwise it could reduce her need.

1 Like
14

Wesleyan’s Quantitative Analysis Center would appeal to this student:

2 Likes
15

This major at School of Mines may be of interest.

The Quantitative Biosciences and Engineering (QBE) bachelor’s degree at Colorado School of Mines is designed for students interested in pre-med and a host of new and emerging biological fields. Uniquely designed to help students harness and respond to the data revolution, students will receive quantitative training. This includes hands-on training not only in biology, chemistry and physics, but also mathematics and computer science.

16

OP, how important is ease of traveling to the college? Humboldt’s location can be a drawback.

1 Like
17

Could be a nice fit if affordable, but an under-40K COA for an OOS student would be relatively rare here, and I’ve seen quite a few complaints from OOS applicants that their actual costs upon receiving an offer fell short of projections, so I would take any favorable NPC results with a grain of salt.

18

Oooh yeah. You are right. I missed under $40 and saw the grandparents could maybe pay $40k.

Interested to hear if they are QB eligible ?

19

I was pondering Reed, and suggested it half-heartedly above… but as I understand it, their core curriculum is fairly literature-and-writing heavy. Plus, it’s very much a “fit” school. In terms of LGBTQ+ friendliness, it would fit, but in terms of other aspects of the “vibe,” OP would have to evaluate and definitely visit if interested.

As another thought, an alternative to the large Oregon State campus in Corvallis is the smaller Cascades campus in Bend. Gorgeous area (esp. for “wilderness stuff”) that is quite queer-friendly (and has a small airport), and the OSU campus has only a little over 1000 students. It has both CS and bio majors, and the biochem & molecular bio major has a computational track. It also has a small Honors College. A majority of students live in the surrounding community, but there is on-campus housing that accommodates more than 3/4 of entering first-years. And if one were to “outgrow” the small Cascades campus, I’d assume that transfer to Corvallis would be fairly seamless.

2 Likes
20

With respect to LACs, your daughter may benefit from researching Hamilton, partly for its new computer science facility, which will feature “best-in-class technologies and resources.”

2 Likes