It seems there are many experienced world travelers on this forum and I can use some help.
I have 10 vacation days to burn in 2016. On a whim I decided to visit Portugal and Spain in the first half of December (13 nights in Europe). Never been to either country and do not speak the languages. Plan to fly into Lisbon and leave from Madrid. I like to drive around and will rent a car. For now itinerary looks something like this (in my head):
Lisbon–>Sagres–> Faro–>Seville–>Cadiz–>Gibraltar–>Malaga–>Granada–>Cordoba–>Toledo–> Madrid
Questions for now:
Lisbon. I plan 2 nights. City seems small. Can I book a random 4 star hotel on Priceline in the area they call Lisbon? Roughly $50/night.
Lisbon. What is a must to see given time limitations?
Madrid. I allocated 3 nights - 2 full days. Where is the best place to live?
Madrid. What is a must see? (in addition to Prado)
I expect that having a car in these 2 cities will not be an advantage.
This project calls for the biggest spreadsheet since the college admissions spreadsheet:)
Any good advice will be appreciated. Cheers!
I haven’t been to Spain but I was in Portugal back in 1988. lol. Future H and I flew to Lisbon, stayed a few days, drove south and came back up. I can’t give much Lisbon advice since the city has likely changed but we loved it all. Make sure you hear some Fado music in a small club and go visit Belem, on the north side of the city, too.
When you drive south, I remember slow, lumbering trucks carrying piles of cork. Cars would pass them on 2-lane roads, often 4 or 5 cars at a time, and oncoming traffic would just move over a little to give space. Don’t do this until you’ve seen it done at least once in case the driving culture has changed since the late 80s.
Sagres was wonderful. Dramatic cliffs and cliff walks and water. Henry the Navigator’s school and a few big hotels full of British elder tourists! We also loved Armacao de Pera (sp?) further east along the coast. There are red Utah-lke rock formations that come down into the ocean and you can hire a small private boat to take you to a beach that is only accessible by boat and pick you up at the end of the day.
We saw a bull fight in Faro. In Portugal, they don’t kill the bull and to compensate, the pointy part of the bull’s horns is sawn off. They try to tease the bull and surround it and physically subdue it. Doesn’t work, usually!
If you can, get to Evora. It is near straight east from Lisbon and not too far from the Spanish border. This is the Alentejo region, where most Portuguese Dao wine comes from. The city has most of it’s Arab wall, a Roman temple ruin, and some prehistoric monuments nearby. Food is really good (soup of the Alentejo) and it is just a wonderful small city.
Wow! That sounds like a lot of road mileage. Not my choice for traveling, but this isn’t my trip! I’ve not been to Portugal, but all the stops in Spain you’ve mentioned are worth more than a couple hours. I hope the driving and hotel ins and outs give you the time you want. But, maybe the fun for you is the driving!
I went to Spain in 2015. Loved it. We stayed near the Puerto del Sol which was walking distance to the Prado, the Royal Palace, the main plaza, and Plaza Santa Anna. I would recommend two full days in Granada to see the Alhambra and the Albaizin and the old center. One full day Cordoba; the mesquita is a bucket list type must see. Two nights in Sevilla to see the old quarter, the Alcazar and cathedral.
Another consideration (recognizing that you are just beginning the research and planning) - I don’t know what is on your list for sightseeing but I can tell you that the Alhambra in Granada “sells out” their daily admissions, often long in advance. I would narrow the dates for that stop down and check on ticket availability even now. I have traveled in Spain in early December - I found it a great time with few crowds, but I wouldn’t leave the Alhambra to chance if that is a must-see.
Agree with above poster that Puerto del Sol area of Madrid (although noisy) is great for sightseeing on foot - dump your car at the airport. But before dumping, you might consider El Escorial outside of town and easily accessible by car from Madrid. I see the logic of your route, but if you wanted to cut the number of stops and different hotels, Toledo and Segovia (not on your current list) are easily accessible as day trips from Madrid by train and bus. Cordoba can also be done as a day trip, although a bit of a longer day.
A couple years ago, tension between Great Britain and Spain made for no fun at the Gibraltar border. You might want to check on the current situation.
I’ve traveled a lot as a solo female in Europe, Asia and the US. Personally, I would not feel comfortable doing a Priceline in a city I’m not familiar with, but that’s a personal decision.
First of all, thank you very much everyone for great information. Alhambra is on the top of the list and I will check ticket situation shortly. I agree about the risk doing Priceline in a big city however 4 stars may be ok? I trust Priceline stars (based on US experience).
I started my spreadsheet and can clearly see that I am running out of time to see everything so have to give up Madrid and immediate vicinity. The car will actually cost a fortune because they add $450 surcharge to return it to a different location (or different country?) so I should concentrate on locations not easily accessible without a car. I hope that one day I will travel to Madrid for an extended weekend and see everything but for now I am cutting it out completely. I will have to drive from Toledo straight to the Madrid Airport. Unfortunately direct United flight to the US created unnecessary temptation. For now the trip looks like this:
Lisbon(2)–>Sagres(1)–>Faro(1)–>Seville(2)–>Cadiz–>Gibraltar–>Marbella(1)–>Granada(2)–>Cordoba(2)–>Toledo(1)–> Madrid-Barajas Airport.
Number of nights in parenthesis, Malaga and Madrid gone.
Please keep ideas coming.
Do check current typical border crossing times at Gibraltar. Sometimes lines are hours long and it looks like you hope to go in and out, 2 crossings, in one day. I think there are some on-line border queue monitoring sites. You may need to factor the queue time into your driving itinerary between Cadiz and Marbella. Gibraltar is not necessarily a quick, easy stop despite appearancs on the map.
As you suggest, Madrid is an easy long (very long for me, I love Madrid!) weekend or short week trip. Fly in and out, no car rental needed. You could save Toledo for that visit. Toldedo is very accessible from Madrid with many train connections.
If you have an amex card I’d get there supplementary car insurance, which is primary to avoid issues when renting abroad. It costs about $20-$25 per rental for up to 42 days of coverage.
I do not have Amex but I have a Visa that offers collision coverage as primary. It seems Amex coverage includes some additional minor protections but probably not enough to make me get another credit card.
@Momofadult I read about Gibraltar and found these video cams. You are right that I planned quick in and out and that may not be feasible. One of the options is to leave the car on the Spanish side and cross La Frontera on foot, the main advantage in bringing the car into Gibraltar is to fill it up with cheap gas. I may have to decide on the spot what is the best approach.
In Toledo I will only have half a day and my last supper. Only enough time to verify if El Greco painting was correct.
Need more tips about Portuguese Algarve coast. Anyone?
If you don’t drive a manual transmission, be sure to specify that you want an automatic when you book your rental. Most rentals in Europe will be manuals, unless you’re renting in the luxury level category.
El Greco did, indeed, know his stuff! That was my primary interest in the city also - stunning to walk through. I thought I was in the painting!! Do enjoy!
Please return after your trip and leave a quick summary. I’d love to hear about how things went for you.
I can drive a stick after initial struggle. Last time I was almost hit by a bus and by a truck during my learning phase. I also could not figure out how to put the car in reverse and my “Pan-Atlantic” GPS was pointing me 900km off. This time I should be better prepared with a CHIP+PIN Card to pay tolls, working phone and GPS.
I need to figure out if I should rent a diesel.
I will gladly provide trip summary.
For the Algarve, we found Praia de Roch to be too much of a big beach resort town and liked Armacao de Pera much better.
You will probably be given a diesel car. I don’t know if you can even specify that or not. As for Amex, I’m thinking of getting one just for that rental benefit. I have a card with benefits that sound great, but know people and have heard storied that getting those benefits can be quite difficult. Amex asks few questions, requires little or no paperwork, takes care of everything.
I was in Lisbon in 201. It was great, but be warned that it is very hilly. We had a whole week in the city and surroundings. If you insist on doing all that driving, practice your stick driving before you go, and I’m not kidding. In both countries the coastal roads are winding. I’m tired just thinking about all that driving.
Did you consider a tour? At least you could be on a bus enjoying the scenery between stops. Or a train.
Get those Alhambra fix asap. Granada is also hilly.
Sevilla is charming.
There are high speed trains between Sevilla and Madrid, Cordoba and Madrid, Malaga and Madrid. None takes more than three hours, and you can get cheap tickets in advance, I think 60 days.
I once got into serious trouble with a stick and reverse on a high hill in Martinique!. Only a sympathetic local saved me! Practice reverse on the flat and know your clutch point! A few times.
As I am planning a Spanish trip around that time, am very curious about your plans and the answers. Mixing up the transport could save you some money and increase the enjoyment. I found a very reasonable and quick train from Sevilla with connections to the Madrid airport in 3 hours. I noted day tours into Gibralter from Malaga for $50. 12 hours worth. I assume that a tour would ease the border issues? Regardless, will skip it.
I have both the United and Delta cards. United is primary coverage without the $25 surcharge, while Delta has that charge. I just use the United these days. Am I missing something about the AmEx Delta?
Renting a car for part of this trip, in France, automatics came up, well, automatically when the site noted my north American location. Stick is still cheaper.
You all gave me enough of an Alhambra scare so I booked Alhambra+city tour. The 8:30am was already not available so I got 9 am start. Cordoba to Madrid train is an interesting proposition but then bye-bye El Greco… We shall see. I do have a friend world traveler who drives a Volvo with a stick to always keep stick skills sharp. I can trade it for a week.
Thank you. Please keep ideas coming.
What is going on between Gibraltar and Spain is quite interesting. Gibraltar is a major smuggling point and a money laundering destination. I believe that Spanish authorities periodically give Gibraltar a hard time, start checking all bags and intentionally create a mess. I checked La Frontera cam today and the traffic was flowing smoothly. Hopefully all sides will be in Christmas spirit in December and there will be no flare ups of hostilities. There are no cruise ships scheduled to dock at Gibraltar in the first half of December and there are currently no flights from Gibraltar to Spanish cities (flights are to UK only). It seems when planes depart or land La Frontera closes. Airport was built on the land that was supposedly illegally appropriated from Spain (another point of contention).
I am happy that this thread may help multiple CC users.
In a Spain, check out the town of Ronda and neighboring villages. Beautiful! If you are starved for English being spoken by then, see if you can reserve a room at Hotel Molina del Puente. It is run by an English couple and they cook really well!