Help! Premed: Duke (23k/yr) vs. Johns Hopkins (21k/yr)

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I’m an Asian-American student from Southern California, and I’m totally stuck between Duke and Johns Hopkins. I recently got into both of them RD, and everything about the schools feel so similar: Student to Faculty Ratio (both 5:1, ~6k students), both Premed and US Rankings (tied at 6th with Caltech), even their Medical School admission rate (both 85%).

Their tuitions are about the same around 63-65k and they even gave me the same amount of aid, completely converting tuition and leaving 23k and 21k, respectively. I have the advantage of family somewhat closer to Duke but not close enough to stay off campus – costs are overall not a concern and I am fortunate for my family’s financial support no matter the school.

Pros of Duke:

  • Better grade inflation and work/life balance?
  • a HUGE and beautiful Gothic campus
  • Strong alumni connections
  • Interest in iGEM and Synthetic Biology work there
  • Choose a major after 2 years

Cons of Duke:

  • Majority white school? I’m from a heavily Vietnamese area, so making that switch feels like of a bit of a culture shock for me
  • Durham = “middle of nowhere” college city? Coming from Cali I don’t know what to make of Southern schools and the culture there

Pros of JHU:

  • STRONG Premed Culture, focus on diverse intellectual pursuits
  • Undergrad Research opportunities
  • Baltimore’s proximity to NYC and the Northeast in general
  • Majority Asian population yet as diverse as Duke, there’s even an H-Mart next to campus LOL
  • Feels like a more tight-knit campus, even when the populations are about the same
  • Access to Peabody Conservatory and JHU Hospital + shuttles
  • Does not cheap out on their students. I probably won’t be able to go to Blue Jay Day because of the trifecta of turning 18/expired passport/no driver’s license, but they offered me full travel assistance! And everyone got cool speakers for acceptance too!

Cons:

  • Difficult work/life balance and grade deflation?
  • Safety of Baltimore?
  • Physically smaller campus for the same number of students
  • Potentially toxic and stressful academic culture?

Practice rooms are a must for me (with grand pianos please!!) and I enjoy lap swimming - Duke has the better pool, but JHU has pianos apparently littered around depending on the dorm. Besides this information, I’ve looked on online tours – unable to go in person – and feel indifferent to the type of architecture.

I’m grateful that I have to make a choice like this in the first place, and I thoroughly appreciate your feedback in advance! Thank you for making this online space such a helpful and open community!

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Let’s address some of your Duke cons-

In the 2021/22 CDS, 670 of 1,744 students were white. Pre Supreme Court.

The most recent class shows 52% white. See attached.

I’m from San Diego. Durham is not the middle of nowhere - it’s in a major metropolitan area and students from Duke will come from all over.

I agree with your view of the campus. It’s stunning.

As for JHU, you can take a train to NYC but it’s not close that you’ll go all the time. It’s several hours - you could be there just as quickly from Duke (flight).

If you want an Asian population, they show 46% are so yes it’d fit more than Duke.

Good luck. Congrats on two awesome offers.

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I grew up in Durham and know the music program at Duke pretty well. It’s not going to be like Peabody but it’s a lovely, close-knit community with a terrific chamber music program and accessible teachers. The music department is on East Campus, where all the freshmen live, and that’s going to be the biggest concentration of practice rooms – but there are apparently a bunch on West Campus too.

The city has evolved a lot since I was your age. Much more diversity – larger immigrant population – better restaurants – etc. It’s more expensive, too. :slight_smile: Within walking distance of East campus are a bunch of great restaurants, coffeeshops, a grocery store, etc. Farther afield in the Triangle area are H-mart, Wegmans, Trader Joe’s, etc. It’s not a major city but I’d say the broader area has more in common (politically, culturally, etc.) with the Bay Area or Chicago suburbs than it does with a lot of the more rural south.

The weather in either location will be a bit of a change from what you’re used to in SoCal but I think NC would have an edge on Baltimore. Spring in Durham is gorgeous; fall is mild. Summers are hot and humid (in both places). If you have a car, the North Carolina beaches are about 2.5 hours away, and (in contrast to a lot of the Pacific beaches) the water is warm and fairly calm.

Can’t really weigh in on Hopkins although I’ve heard it can be pretty intense. But if you got into both schools I imagine you can handle it. :slight_smile:

Congrats on two incredible choices!

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Congratulations on these acceptances!

It’s unfortunate you can’t visit these schools because they are quite different in vibe. Can you go to the DMV this week and get a state ID?

A few comments:

-The Durham area is not in the middle of nowhere. All the towns in the area bleed together and have just over 2 million people in total.

-Duke school spirit is greater than JHU’s

-Nearly a third of Duke students are Asian and while I know there are many different ethnicities within that term, I doubt you will feel culture shock in that regard. There are several Asian markets near Duke.

-I would give Duke the edge in student life.

-The Duke area is safer than the JHU area.

-Both schools will be an academic grind for pre-med…choose a major you like and will do well in. Good luck.

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Congratulations on wonderful acceptances! You can’t make a bad choice here!

For Duke - Durham is definitely not middle of nowhere. The Raleigh Durham area is vibrant and bustling. Duke has a more traditional college environment with lots of green space, pretty buildings, and some rah rah sports. I do think it would be a hair less stressful for a premed than JHU.

JHU - We lived in Baltimore for a few years and my D toured JHU three times while she was building her college list, including sitting in on classes. Her intended major was in chemical engineering but she was very very impressed with the research facilities and lab, and loved the idea of having Peabody nearby. What she was most impressed with was that the students did not seem cutthroat or stressed, and she sat in on classes the week before finals. JHU was the only reach school that ended up staying on her list because she liked the student vibe very very much. I’m not sure if that would be different for pre-med though.

Safety is a real concern at JHU. It is the very definition of an urban campus. But, campus is pretty self contained and there is a lot of security. One side of campus is bordered by a wooded ravines, the other by museums, and then the city. You’ll need to have city smarts there when you are off campus in a very different way than if you were at Duke.

Weather is also nicer in NC than MD.

I too wish you could visit as these two campuses will feel very very different!

Best of luck on your decision. Great choices! Congratulations!

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Duke also has exceptional food. When we visited we enjoyed sampling dishes from several of the outside vendors who compete for space in their dinning facility. Options included sushi and crepes and cuisines as diverse as Mediterranean to middle eastern. All very good and payable by dinning “swipes”.

They also have an amazing botanical garden that is as large as most schools entire campuses. Simply beautiful.

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Still more fun as I think they have had more recent success than the Baltimore Orioles…

Congratulations on great options

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I don’t think there is a bad choice here, but reviewing your con list, and echoing others, I think more of your Hopkins cons are well-grounded than your Duke cons.

I think you will find the Duke area does feel like it has plenty to do, the Research Triangle area is really quite cosmopolitan, and the student population will feel diverse and not dominated by any particular ethnicity.

In contrast, the pre-med culture at Hopkins is a thing. Not always a bad thing for every kid, but if you are already concerned I think it may be worth taking that into account. Similarly, I actually quite like cities like Baltimore, but I also recognize they can be a bit of a culture shock for people from different parts of the country (or outside the US). So again, if you are already concerned, that is worth considering.

In the end, to me this seems kinda easy because I think Duke is such a great option for you based on the pros you have identified and what I have picked up in terms of your preferences. So while Hopkins could be a good opportunity too in the right circumstances, here it just seems to me you could happily pick Duke.

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I’m Asian-American and am self-aware about my bias against the American South. However, if I was advising my own kid in the (lucky) situation you have, I’d tell them to go to Duke.

The triangle is not a rural or isolated area - it’s diverse and full of the kinds of amenities you don’t find in many California areas that are less densely populated, or even some CA suburban areas that aren’t as current with food/shopping/entertainment trends. I’d say it’s culturally “cooler” than certain SoCal places (inland empire, for example) though with fewer Asians than those kinds of places. JHU has the reputation of being a grind - whether that’s fair or unfair at this time, I can’t say, but I know Asian-Americans who went there in the nineties and then became doctors and I wouldn’t say they describe their time at college as a chill, relaxed experience (though they made good friends and partied and stuff like that).

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It seems Duke has a lot of dorm hall pianos as well: Duke Student Affairs

I suspect you’ll have more time to play them, too.

Be sure to learn how to use Anki with FSRS before starting any memorization heavy classes

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I my view, it it important to visit both universities in order to get a feel for the environment.

Have relatives at both universities; Duke undergraduate & Duke Fuqua and JHU medical researcher and JHU MBA program (small MBA program, but received a very generous scholarship for a desired a specialty concentration).

Seems obvious that JHU offers a larger Asian community and easier access to NYC, while Duke offers a great traditional college experience.

If safety is a concern, I suggest communicating with other current students at JHU as well as at Duke.

Neither is a wrong choice,but one may be a much better fit for you.

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These are both great schools but have very different vibes/campus cultures. If there is any way you can visit both of them, I would highly recommend as that could really help you zero in on which school is a better fit for you.

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Currently waiting on my State ID!! Unfortunately it won’t come in time to travel anywhere, but I appreciate the message!

Thank you to everyone for helping me with this decision! I’m waiting on a Financial Aid Reconsideration from both schools to help make my final decision. I’m already loving the community on here right after joining and I cannot thank everyone enough for their input! Hope everyone is doing well!

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Sophomore, Chinese-American Pre-med from Texas at Hopkins, here!

I’ll go through your thoughts about Hopkins:
There is definitely a strong pre-med culture here and a plethora of research opportunities. I have never heard of anyone who had difficulty finding a professor to do research with. In my own experience, I was very surprised at how when I applied to several medical startups at the hospital, the clinicians were eager to bring me on. School is definitely hard, but there is huge support from other students, in office hours, and during student-led tutoring sessions. I will say that while at first glance it looks like there is a grind culture here, I’ve met incredible pre-meds who know how to have fun while balancing their school-work seriously. As much as people here joke that the professors are out to get you, I think if you have a genuine desire to learn from them, you will discover they are eager to help. The culture to a large extent is what you make it to be, and who you surround yourself with.

Something very valuable to Hopkins that you did not mention is that Baltimore is only an hour long train ride from DC. It costs only $9 one way, and free bus service. I’ve visited a few times, and I made an annual day-trip to visit the cherry blossoms this past Saturday with a friend when they were in peak bloom. Not to mention, Hopkins also has a D.C. campus (which is located next to the capitol), and a great place to study!

Safety: While when people hear “Baltimore” the first thing they think is violence, neither I nor anyone I know has had such encounter (coming from someone who has gone downtown and walked in the surrounding neighborhoods at night). The few times per a year when I get public safety notifications, they tend to happen only early in the morning such as 3-4AM, never when I would be out. Hopkins is located in a nicer part of Baltimore and there are safety patrol cars that drive around and safety officers stationed throughout the campus and its outskirts. Now it goes without saying, I’ve taken precautions such as being aware of my surroundings, (sometimes) walking with other people at night, and knowing which places I should avoid at night.

Yes, campus is small and there is a bunch of construction going on (fingers crossed the new student center doesn’t get pushed to 2026), but I have never felt it was crowded. It’s possible to find places to just walk or sit on a bench away from all the hustle and bustle, and the small creek behind the campus is a wonderful place to take a hike.

Yes, there are indeed pianos scattered throughout campus. I’m typing this up in a lecture hall that has an upright in a corner. The sophomore dorm has a baby grand, not sure if the others do, but they all definitely have at least an upright. The pool here is functional. Definitely not comparable to a D1 school pool, but a pool nonetheless.

All of this is coming from a student who never could see himself in Baltimore during high school, and yet now I’m here and I’m grateful for it.

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Baltimore is not safe around the JHU campus and in several other parts of the city. Federal crime stats show Baltimore to be among the top 10 cities for robbery & murder (#3 in the nation for highest murder rate).