Help with college list for high stat student [CA resident, 4.0 UW, 1420 SAT, pre-med]

Applying to College
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My daughter is trying to finalize her college list and I want to ensure that we are including some good, lesser known colleges with high admit rates to med school.
A little bit about her- she’s a senior, public school

  • 4.0 UW; 4.3W
  • 4 APS so far in junior year- 4s in three of them and 3 in AP Physics C;
  • 2 honors in junior year
    As part of a Medical Pathways Program at school, she did a Medical Intervention Honors class- got a perfect score of 600 in the national exam (first ever at her school)
  • Has a fairly rigorous senior class schedule (5 APs, 2 honors)

Extra curriculars:

  • President of HOSA chapter (Health Occupations Students of America)
  • President of Music Mentors Club
  • 4 years jazz band
  • Band and Orchestra Leadership Council member
  • Outside of school- California Jazz Conservatory for 2 years
  • Volunteers at Kaiser local hospital weekly
  • Presidents Gold/Silver volunteer awards for 3 years
  • Represented and won events at state level competitions for HOSA, represented at International meet
  • Leukemia & Lymphoma Society Student Visionary runner up (Raised $35,000 for cancer research). Stays connected to LLS through mentoring

This past summer she contacted professors and landed a research opportunity at UCSF Institute for Neuro-Degenerative Diseases. I am not the authority here but she worked at an actual wet lab on Protein Denaturing (I think I am saying that right- she knows, I don’t!)

She is a two time cancer survivor with strong ambition to be a doctor, rooted in her own medical background.

Solid essays… still working on it.
I am confident she will have amazing rec letters.

Here’s one thing that’s making us nervous- 1420 SAT. Taking it one more time hoping to get it up to high 1400s at least.

Current college list:

  • All UCS (we are California residents. Dream schools either UCLA or UCB)
  • Super reaches: Cornell, UPenn, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, WashU, USC, Boston U, Pomona, U MIch, UCLA, UC Berkeley
  • Reach/ Match: Univ of Washigton, Purdue, UNC Chapel Hill, Rutgers, UC Davis, UC Irvine
  • Safeties: San Diego State, UC Santa Cruz, Univ of Oregon

Will her 1420 SAT hurt her given all the stuff good stuff she has going on?

Thank you in advance!

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For the highly selective schools that require (or strongly suggest) taking a standardized test? Yes, it will hurt.

Do you need to go to one of those schools to get into medical school? Absolutely not. In fact, since getting a high GPA should be priority #1, certain highly selective schools may be the wrong choice altogether.

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The UCs are test blind so it will not matter there. For Cornell, consider applying to CALS rather than CAS as CALS is test blind. Perhaps apply test optional where it is allowed.

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Not for UCs, which are test blind. It might for some schools for which 1420 falls below the 25th percentile, but schools with holistic admissions will consider test scores in light of her overall record.

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Thank you for the info about CALS. I was not aware and that’s great!

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I do agree with focusing on schools that are not going to hurt her GPA for med school, and have been working on my daughter to get her to think on these lines.

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Her SAT won’t be considered for admission to any CA publics…as they are test blind.

And free advice. She is a HS senior. Right now, she needs to find a college where she will be accepted, is affordable, and that she likes. Medical school thoughts should be on the back burner as she can complete the required courses for medical school admissions at all of the colleges you have listed.

So…look at the other positive things she sees in these or other colleges.

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Famous and highly ranked universities such as Cornell and Stanford do get a higher percentage of their students into medical schools. However a lot of this, and some might speculate possibly all of this, comes from the consistently high level of incoming students who arrive as freshmen at Cornell and Stanford and similarly ranked universities. It is not clear, at least to me, whether any one particularly strong student is better off arriving as an average freshman at Cornell or Stanford, or starting off in the top 1/3 of the incoming class at a lower ranked university. Also, for pretty nearly any university in the top 100 in the US, and perhaps closer to top 200, there will be some very strong incoming students. The top third of incoming students will be very strong at a lot of universities.

As one example of this, one daughter attended a university that is ranked somewhere in the 100 to 130 range. She had a major that overlapped a great deal with premed required classes (she was pre-vet), and had many friends who were premed. One (now former) boyfriend was premed, and had never had a B in his life. He now has his MD and is a resident. This particular daughter, graduating from an undergraduate school that was not ranked in the top 100, got accepted to multiple DVM programs including two “top 10” programs. She should get her DVM this coming May assuming that all continues to go well. Similarly, the doctors who I have discussed this with say that the other students in their MD programs had come from “all over the place”.

However, medical school is expensive. Even doctors have trouble paying off their medical school debts. You have great in-state public universities that can prepare a student very well for medical school. I would expect any of UCs, certainly including UC Riverside and probably UC Merced, would be very good choices for an in-state premed student.

All of which is my way of saying that it is not obvious to me whether or not a university on the level of Cornell, U.Penn, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, WUSTL, … is worth the cost for a premed student. This probably depends on family finances. Other than me personally, the rest of my family has had quite a bit of success with the “affordable university that is a good fit” for undergrad, followed by “highly ranked university” for graduate programs.

We have seen a few posts on this web site from students who had superb stats from high school (similar to your daughter), and who only got into relatively “normal” universities (perhaps ranked in the 50 to 150 range). One thing that I have consistently told these kids, particularly ones who are premed, is that university classes (and particularly premed classes) are tough. Having done so well in high school is going to prepare your daughter to show up on day 1 in tough premed classes and do very well regardless of which university she attends.

Congratulations on this. This is tough, but huge if the cancer is fully cured (depending upon the aggressiveness I do understand that some people can go for years not quite 100% sure whether or not their cancer has been cured, I might be one such person). I think that determination may be one of the most important characteristics that a student needs to get through medical school. Hopefully this will work out well.

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I’m not being mean- your D sounds terrific. But getting a 3 on an AP when she got an A (if I’m reading her GPA correctly) suggests some grade inflation going on at her HS. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I would ratchet down. Some of her reaches seem like a waste of an application fee. Suggest that she pick one or two-- and then focus on the colleges where her scores put her firmly in “admit” territory. College is a big adjustment for everyone-- if she discovers that her perfect grades aren’t quite as solid a prep for college as she’d expected, you don’t want her floundering until she figures things out.

Her wanting to be a doctor is fantastic. And being a cancer survivor means she has seen a lot of medical professionals in action. But right now she needs to focus on being the best HS student she can be… medicine will still be there when she’s at the right stage to worry about it.

Does her guidance counselor think she has a good list? Has she looked at Mt. Holyoke, Smith, Bryn Mawr? They attract highly capable and ambitious women but are a skootch less competitive admissions-wise than places like Stanford/JHU…

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Thank you for that. I can ASSURE you there is no grade inflation going on. One 3 in Physics C doesn’t bother me or cause me to jump to those conclusions. You never know what goes on test day!
I think she has a good mix of schools on her list, but yes I agree the highly competitive ones are going to be even more difficult.
Thanks for the suggestions on the colleges. I will look into them.

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You asked if her scores would hurt her (meaning the SAT’s). They won’t hurt her at test optional colleges, and they won’t hurt her at colleges where her scores and GPA (and all the other fantastic stuff) puts her squarely in the “admit” pile. But I don’t know a single kid in any of my kids AP physics class who got an A without also getting a 5. And the profiles of kids who apply to Stanford (for example) are getting 5’s on every single AP, even in the rare class where they end up with a B+.

So when compared to the national pool, your D’s standardized test scores suggest she is shooting too high.

You may not be at all concerned that her AP performance isn’t consistent with a straight A student. And you are right of course. But standardized test scores either validate or call into question the transcript/GPA at the tippy top colleges which require scores. And you want her application being read by adcom’s who say “this is exactly the kind of student we want here”, not by adcom’s looking puzzled…

Agnes Scott? Terrific college which flies under the radar for reasons I cannot fathom…

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I think the SAT score will be an issue at Stanford, Cornell, Penn, JHU, WashU and Michigan. I think it is probably OK at BU if she applies early. The UC schools are test blind so her excellent grades will be a big help there. Even though UNC is TO, I’d put it as a high reach out of state (for reference S24 was rejected with 3.98/4.64, 1580 SAT and 5s on all his APs except Spanish) - the admit rate out of state was around 5% last year and they are capped at 18% OOS students.

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This is the harsh truth that is difficult for many parents to accept. The applicants getting into the most selective institutions, no matter what is “going on” during test day, don’t get 3s on AP exams.

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I see a lot of pretty high reaches on this list. I would eliminate some and add some more targets.

I also agree about the AP scores, but that does not take away from any of your daughter’s accomplishments. Take a look at Pitt and the University of Rochester.

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So I note what I would call your Reach list includes a lot of midsize private universities, and one private liberal arts and sciences college (LAC).

But you have no such colleges for what I would call your Target or Likely lists.

For some kids, such colleges can work out very well, including for premed purposes. They may also have robust merit programs. Just my two cents, but I think many high stats kids, and PARTICULARLY high stats premed kids, can benefit from thinking about how to turn their high stats into merit rather than a harder-admit college.

So let us know if you would be interested in hearing some possible options along those lines, and also maybe what you are looking to pay and whether you qualify for need aid.

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That’s not necessarily true. Sometimes they are getting 3s, they are just not listing them on their applications (which is allowable for most - although not all - colleges). We’ve seen quite a few such cases on CC.

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My higher stats kid (one B, all honors, 9 AP’s with a couple of 4’s, the rest 5’s, 34 act) went to a state university with a 73% admissions rate, and got a large merit award, plus was able to graduate a year early due to credits coming in. She was in honors and I think only had one B (first semester chemistry). She took premed classes (pre DPT for her). She was accepted into every DPT program she applied to. At the honors graduation it was amazing to hear where these students were going next, especially for med school.

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Yes please! If you’re talking about Pomona, we visited and loved the school and research orientation. I do see a few in the reach category recommended by a few above, but open to more LACs. Thank you!

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Given the OOS status….UNC is definitely a high reach (it is fine to apply if she wants as long as she remembers it’s a reach).

If she is considering OOS publics I would keep Rutgers and look into SUNY (Buffalo, Binghamton), UDel and the U of Cincinnati.

See if she likes the U of Richmond and Wake Forest.

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Wrt LACs
Seconding Agnes Scott, Bryn Mawr, Mount Holyoke.
Look into Whitman (West Coast LAC, sunny spot in WA state) and St Olaf (Midwest, very strong in science and supportive for premeds, also known for music).

Both have merit opportunities to check out and run the NPC to see whether either one would be affordable.
Interest (join mailing list, click on links they send, ask questions, join virtual tour…) would be very important.

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