They don’t want LACs.
I am struggling to see much of a quirky/artsy (or dare I say, nerdy?) bent to this list. Maybe some tours would help? Yes, there are pockets of all different types at most large schools, and it is possible for a kid to find their tribe at those places, but still…
UChicago? Yes. Yale, mostly, especially for Humanities majors. But the big football powerhouses? Hard to envision.
Penn and Cornell, the schools with the most pre-professional cultures in the Ivy League? Nope.
Harvard? That one is on the bubble — there was a recent article about how much the undergrad culture there has shifted toward securing jobs in consulting and banking.
People are steering you in the right direction with Brown, which seems to have more quirky kids than the average Ivy. Rochester is also a great suggestion, as is Tufts. Carnegie Mellon might be an interesting option, depending on the major.
It’s a shame about the 4K+ enrollment requirement because that excludes a lot of schools that have the “quirky, artsy” vibe. Would your student be open to touring a school with an enrollment of 3K? I mean, if you come to see Yale and/or Brown, it might make sense to check out Wesleyan during the trip. Brown, Tufts and Wesleyan see a lot of cross applicants for a reason.
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My kid is not artsy, but otherwise had same preferences and is heading to Brown. Definitely give that one another look. Much more the predominant vibe IMO than ND, Dartmouth, Cornell and Penn. Mine also liked U of Chicago very much, but was only willing to do regular decision so figured no point in applying.
Agree CMU is interesting option as well as some larger LAC’s if open to it.
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My student was not attracted to (or perhaps even repelled by) “quirky, artsy” places, so I feel like the schools they did not vibe with would be what the OP’s kid is looking for.
Wesleyan was a hard no. Also, though it was strong for the intended major, Tufts was a tough sell. (The tour guide claimed the biggest event at Tufts was the annual “silly dancing” contest — cue dramatic eye roll.)
My student’s top two schools were Penn and Northwestern, two strongly pre-professional, work hard, play hard schools. My student is enrolled at Penn.
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Just to clarify for OP, my kid is kind of between a pre-professional vibe and a quirky vibe, he could “fit” at either. Brown definitely is not all artsy quirky, that would have been a turn-off for him, but certainly exists more without a business school, etc.
Yes, we saw some of the same with Brown, which stayed on our student’s list. The issue is whether there’s a dominant (or imposing) culture. For example, I can’t imagine, say, a Goth kid being happy at Boston College. That doesn’t mean there’s never been a Goth kid there, but something just doesn’t jibe.
Capsule judgements or stereotypes don’t always do justice to a place, to be sure. Yet, with thousands of schools available, some summary judgements are necessary.
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I grew up in Boston and went to Brown and the weather is virtually identical. There will be snowstorms which race up I-95 and hit both cities; there will be storms which blow out to the Atlantic and miss both. Occasionally the wind pattern means that one city gets an inch of snow and the other gets 4 inches, but that variability can be neighborhood by neighborhood in the same town as well.
New Haven? Two hours south of Providence. If there is any difference in the overall weather it would be mostly undetectable to the average resident. In all three cities, some years are colder than others.
Once you are South of Bennington Vermont/Portland Maine the weather is going to be very similar across mid/southern new England. Don’t slice the bologna too thin here!
Penn does not have the culture you are looking for.
McGill is very well known among US employers and well respected.
There is an intensity to U Chicago which for some kids feels competitive. Worth spending a weekend there to suss that out IMHO.
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I went to Cornell. Would describe it this way too.
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I think that Michigan State is an extremely likely admit and Michigan is a likely admit. The rest of the schools I’d categorize as low probability (sub-20%) for your son, not because he’s not a great applicant, but because those schools are so extremely popular and competitive amongst top students.
U. of Rochester was the first school that came to mind and is probably a toss-up for your kid (though closer to the likely side). Seconding Ithaca, which would also make a great extremely likely admit for this kid. Depending on the humanities major, he may want to check out Rochester Institute of Technology (probably an extremely likely admit). Fordham should definitely be checked out, and I’m seconding the suggestion of Wesleyan, too. Below are how I’d categorize the additional suggestions I made.
Extremely Likely (80-99+%)
- Ithaca (NY): About 4600 undergrads
- Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads
- Rochester Institute of Technology (NY): About 14k undergrads
Likely (60-79%)
- Fordham (NY): About 10k undergrads
Toss-Up (40-59%)
- U. of Rochester (NY): About 6800 undergrads
Lower Probability (20-39%)
Low Probability (less than 20%)
- Wesleyan (CT): About 3100 undergrads, but really seems like it’d be a good fit apart from the size. Although it’s in the same low probability category as most of the reaches in your original list, getting an admit to Wesleyan would probably be 2-3x easier than at most of the colleges on the reach section of your list.
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I know at least one wildly creative humanities major who was blissfully happy at U Chicago, and my friend’s daughter who visited recently and seems similar to your kid was excited about Chicago (also liked WUSTL fWIW – they had a great visit with some math professors.) Agree that if U Chicago is clear favorite and you can swing it, ED makes sense.
Wild-card question: would your kiddo ever consider schools in the UK? I think Oxbridge is a tough admit from the US but we’ve recently seen some kids around here (extremely high-achieving academically) secure admission. I wonder if some of those schools might draw in more of the intellectually serious/creative types that your child is seeking (and while the weather isn’t as cold it’s definitely comfortingly dark in the winter!)
I also agree with some of the other posters that the vibe you’re describing would be best found in the US at many of the LACs, e.g. Swarthmore, Reed, Grinnell, Wesleyan, Macalester, Carleton, Kenyon, maybe Oberlin, even? All are smaller (some MUCH smaller) than your child’s preferred size. But what about considering a LAC in a consortium setting where the effect is much larger? the Claremont Schools, or the Five College Consortium around Amherst, or Swat-Haverford-Bryn Mawr might all fit the bill.
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So kids in Michigan never really appreciate how great Michigan really is since it’s that “local” college. If your lucky enough to get in it’s one of the best colleges and values period. It meets all your looking for. At MSU he would get at least a half scholarship. Also know many people over the years at both and they rarely run into class mates. Also depends if your a known feeder school.
Chicago students no question think differently, like at another level but I have also known many and many have that quirkiness to them and yes, many are artsy on campus. In fact many wonderful outlets on campus for such. Just walk into Logan on campus and see some great music but art also. Go to one of the performances in their coffee shop and see who shows up. Same with Court theater on campus or this
https://ut.uchicago.edu/
Every campus you can find “your” peeps.
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Agree. Wesleyan is bigger than most SLACs at 3100 students, so it might be worth a look if you’re in the area.
Someone mentioned UVM, and I want to second that, for a safety. Very quirky/artsy feel, and Burlington is great. It also hits the size and weather marks.
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No offense to UPenn, but when I think of intellectual Ivies, this fine school does not top that list. That is not to say that there aren’t intellectuals on campus, of course.
Before I made it that far down your post, I was thinking “UChicago” – and Wesleyan and Vassar, but no LACs allowed! – so I am glad that your child has that at #1.
Yale might fit a bit more than Harvard, but there dwell pockets of intellectualism and artsy/quirky folk at Harvard.
So those four are reaches for anyone who isn’t hooked. If UChicago is the unequivocal #1, I might suggest applying ED, since their RD acceptance rate is like 2-3%. (or was the last time I checked)
If she likes UChicago, I would suggest adding Columbia. I believe the schools are quite similar. I might replace UPenn with Columbia.
I might actually replace Harvard with Princeton, which I believe to be more intellectual overall than H.
Northwestern is a mix of pre-pro and intellectual and another great school all-around and reachy.
Dartmouth definitely fits from an intellectualism standpoint, though it has a rep for hard partying. (is that a big deal?). It’s also in the woods.
Cornell, like Northwestern, is very strong all-around. Dartmouth might be more intellectual than both, though – overall vibe – if we are splitting hairs. It is like a large LAC with a strong B school. Maybe replace Cornell with Brown.
If South Bend is a concern, Georgetown (DC) is an easy replacement – they are academic peers.
So maybe consider updating the reaches like this:
UChicago
Yale
Princeton in lieu of Harvard
Columbia in lieu of UPenn
Brown in lieu of Cornell
Dartmouth (if some woods and partying are okay)
Northwestern
Georgetown in lieu of Notre Dame
Washington U (see below)
Wash U in St. Louis is technically in the Midwest, and it is similar in well-roundedness to Northwestern. But it’s not quite as reachy – it is similar in that respect to Georgetown. WashU might be considered to round out the reaches.
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Deleted. The point has been made many times before I got to it.
This would effectively allow you to ED to Chicago AND REA to Yale.
@Mwfan1921 I saw this, but did not dig. Is it too late for someone to participate in a summer session this year? Having said that, UChicago’s willingness to play the system never fails to amaze me. I imagine their summer programs will become quite popular and they will make some nice $$ off this.
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That’s a good question. I don’t know if any programs are still open…but the online courses start tomorrow July 10, so maybe?
https://summer.uchicago.edu/programs/summer-online
I can’t even with this next level jackas*ery.
ETA: If OP or anyone were thinking about doing the combo platter of this SSEN ED program and REA I would call the REA program and ask if it’s ok. I would also ask the HS counselor their thoughts, and make sure they will allow another ED1 app if the student is not accepted or deferred out of Chicago’s SSEN ED round (say if they weren’t doing an REA app)…for example some counselors won’t allow someone not accepted at Wake in rolling ED to apply to another ED1 even though that is clearly allowed.
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I couldn’t have said it better.
Anyone interested in UChicago should educate themselves before applying so they can play the game and do so with eyes wide open. I say this as someone with two kids who had it amongst their top choices.
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Be careful or the College Confidential University of Chicago pop-up ad that appears every time you enter the name of the school in a search may pop up again… really ridiculous marketing…
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Came here to say William&Mary, assuming they have the kid’s creative /art activity!
This is not at all an accurate assessment of UPenn. There is definitely an intellectual culture AND an arts culture at the school. It is one of the reasons my D23 picked it!
She’s made friends in their art and in fact many of her peers are involved in different arts endeavors! In fact a brand new Arts center is opening in the next 2 yrs that will expand arts even more than the current Annenberg and Platt performing centers.
Just because there is a reputation of wharton kids does not mean that there is no intellectualism at Penn. D has friends at UChicago and Northwestern and all have intellectual kids and overlapping arts kids , and all have premed gunners and prelaw people, and have “finance” types obsessed with certain internships. .
OP , visit and make your own assessment. This caricature of UPenn students is not accurate
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