Helping kid develop target engineering schools

Our child says she is interested in engineering. She says she wants an intense, nerdy school. Doesn’t want a party culture. Says she wants opportunities for research.

We are less convinced that college should be about 4 years of endless work and pressure. We think work/life balance is important, and that you can get a first class education at many schools that have a decent quality of life. We also know that few 17 year olds really know what they want to do. Sure, she won’t become a theater major, but we could see a natural science or CS degree in the future, if she decides that advanced differential equations crammed into 1 semester isn’t her cup of tea.

She should be a strong, but not stellar, applicant. How would you go about helping her make a list of reach/target/safety schools?

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I would start with a budget and decide what you can afford. If SUNY is affordable, begin there.

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Here I go again but I need to reinforce the quality of SUNY Buffalo for engineering.

Our daughter got into some very elite universities. We didn’t want to spend a whole lot but she received a full ride at the time at SUNY Buffalo.

She thought that she was going to do premed and her chances were better through a SUNY school with a med school affiliation. They had a program at SUNY Buffalo and that’s where she went.

She realized that it wasn’t what she wanted to do after she had to take a biomed course and really liked the engineering side of that. So she changed majors to electrical engineering and added computer software. She eventually became an engineering tutor. We’re from Southern California and this child knew nothing but reef sandals and surfer gear.

It took her five years to complete the majors but she came back very well prepared, fierce in her knowledge of engineering/CS concepts. If she had attended Berkeley with her friend she would’ve been in the EECS program and graduated in four years.

She’s blown away every company she’s ever worked for since she’s a fun, personable and articulate manager and is sought out by headhunters frequently. She trains new-hire engineers and CS staff. When someone from SUNY Buff contacts her for referrals, she submits their résumés to her current company and companies where she has leads. She’s been very successful and makes very good money has purchased her home and has done well.

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As the parent, have you done the financial planning to figure out what the budget is? Also, try some net price calculators on web sites of colleges that may be of interest to see if the student needs just admission, or must try for merit scholarships (which would move the school into a more difficult category to get to).

Regarding the student, basic information like courses and grades and (if any) SAT/ACT scores and whether PSAT-based status (NM or CBNRP) is likely or has been gained, would help determine which colleges are realistic for admission (and scholarships if needed).

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We started by visiting different types of schools - big, small, urban, rural, competitive, collaborative, hands on, theoretical…it helped our D figure out what environment she wanted.

We started by identifying safety schools - we were very conservative - schools with 80% + acceptance rates where her stats were over the 75th percentile. We used the information from the schools’ common data sets to determine the list. We also picked one school with rolling admission so she would know early.

Her match/target schools were between 30-60% acceptances rates for engineering (and be sure to look at engineering acceptance rates if the school admits by major).

Her list breakdown was 20% safeties, 60% targets, 20% reaches.

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Cost is not a consideration. She will be full pay wherever she goes, and we have sufficient amounts in her 529.

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Perhaps the first aspect I might consider is whether or not your daughter would like to attend a generally tech-oriented school, such as, say, RPI.

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If the student is somewhat undecided on major (including between different kinds of engineering plus maybe CS or a natural science), consider the ease or difficulty of changing majors at each college. At many of the more competitive admission state flagship type schools, CS and engineering majors are filled to capacity, so it may be difficult to change into them after enrolling.

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Be aware that there is a wealth of info on the Engineering threads

Having said that, I will put in a shameless plug for my school waaay upstate in Potsdam. https://www.clarkson.edu/

Clarkson is mostly engineering, but there are other majors too. Feel free to PM me anytime with questions.

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It sounds like she wants a school where she can focus on techie things. It’s sort of hard to make suggestions with the limited info you have provided.

I would suggest RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology). RTI. Maybe Steven’s?

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I think you described a lot - but then not much at all.

I say this - because every school will have research opportunities, even the “big party schools” which also have non partiers and the non party schools which have big partiers.

Start with environment - is there a part of the country she likes? Weather? Size - is 3K right or mid size or 40K?

Does she like being in or near a city? or not - or in the boonies?

Does she want a sports team to cheer on?

Then - what are the stats, levels of math being taken, etc. - because maybe it’s a Cornell student but wants to be closer to society? Or maybe it’s a student that wants to be in the mountains - and is solid, but not top shelf?

Where is the student in math (how many years), science, language, social science, etc?

So much more to know about your student before names can be delivered, I believe. We don’t know about the students academic profile or desires.

Bonus points if you know what type of engineering for which she may have interest?

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Engineering is hard work, wherever you go. But a “nerdy” vibe need not also mean a joyless grind.

One feature that a lot of “nerdy” schools have in common is gender imbalance. Would it bother her to be outnumbered 2:1 by guys? If not, there are some great schools that would likely love to have her!

A good one to look at, which isn’t super-hard to get into but which is fantastic for STEM and nerdy intensity, is Rose-Hulman. They have a terrific summer program that might be a good pre-college experience for your daughter. (What year is she in now? The application deadline for this summer is April 1st.) Operation Catapult | Rose-Hulman

There are many flavors of nerdy. Some have more of a “grind” reputation, like RPI and, in a different way, Harvey Mudd (which reachy but is also one of the few with gender parity in engineering/CS). Carnegie Mellon is another reachier school in this category. And of course there are the tippy-top grind schools, Caltech and MIT. There are publics like Colorado School of Mines, Missouri S&T, Michigan Tech, Alabama-Huntsville, NJIT, SUNY Poly, and Georgia Tech (another big reach). There are the schools that are known for project-based learning, like Olin (another big reach) and WPI. Stevens, RIT, and Clarkson have already been mentioned.

And then there are the all-purpose U’s that have strong (and nerdy) engineering programs. These run the gamut of competitiveness, from single-digit acceptance rate schools like Cornell and Rice, to “easy to get in, hard to get out” schools like Iowa State. Plenty of nerdy STEM peers to be found - not just at the most competitive schools!

So, there are lots and lots of options, especially with an unlimited budget! If you tell us more about her, it’ll be easier to narrow down. A rough estimate of stats? Areas of interest within STEM? Extracurricular interests? Geographic and environmental preferences? Would nerdy Greek life appeal? (Yes, there are nerdy sororities to be found, at schools like CMU and CWRU. The Douglass Residential College at Rutgers, and it’s Women In Stem programs, could be worth a look too.)

The more you tell us, the better the ideas and suggestions will be.

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Appreciate the many leads in this response, as well as responses from others along the way.

As a candidate, she attends a well known private school that admission committees are aware of, and that generally does an excellent job of placing kids into top schools. Her SAT will be above the median at every elite school, and above the top quarter at all but a handful of schools. She’s taken a rigorous STEM heavy course load and has strong grades overall, but nothing that really stands out like advanced maths, USAMO, Regeneron ISEF, etc. Basically your typical strong, hard working, private school kid.

We’ve toured a lot of selective privates so far, and she has loved JHU and MIT. She loved Chicago despite the lack of an engineering department. She was meh to negative on Northwestern, Rice, Harvard, and Princeton and for that reason, I’m going to cut Vanderbilt and Duke from the tour circuit. Surprisingly, she didnt like CMU and was only mildly positive about Cornell. She absolutely loved RPI. She fears the idea of curve grading from GT so we may not tour it. I have high hopes for HMC, and plan to do a bunch of California schools over spring break. I’m sure she will love Caltech, but I think it’s a bad fit and wouldnt wish it on her. I hope to at some point do a tour of large public midwestern schools including Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan, UIUC, etc. She was turned off by Swathmore’s engineering philosophy, which she viewed as flabby and too deferential to humanities. I’m generally aware of positive reputations for Rose-Hulman, RIT, and Olin but its not rooted in any facts or knowledge.

She professes to be neutral as to both geography and city/urban. Not sure if I believe this. She is a homebody and says she’s uninterested in Greek life. She doesn’t drink and doesn’t want to. She says her counselling office made her take psychometric questionnaires that say she’s a better fit at medium sized schools with lots of faculty access, and that she wouldn’t like enormous institutions. I believe this part – she is the type of kid who loves going to office hours. She says she is interested in research, but hasn’t actually done any, so I dont know why she would say this. She doesnt want to go into academia post graduation, and thinks there’s likely more interesting stuff happening in industry. She’s not super focused on making a ton of money, and is generally turned off by a strong pre-professional vibe.

I just spewed up a bunch of random stuff. Hopefully this helps sharpen the pencil a bit.

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Does her school participate in the Renssaelaer Medal program? That would help to nail down an already-pretty-likely admit, and boost the merit.

JHU is another good one. I wonder how she would react to CWRU, having liked JHU but not CMU or Rice (in the urban-nerdy mid-sized U genre). Case and Hopkins both have the premed-gunner-culture-but-also-nerdy-engineers thing going on.

How does she feel about staying in NYC for college? Columbia? Cooper Union?

Having high hopes for HMC sounds like a good call! It’s nice to have the balance, there, of the nerdy-intense cohort but also being part of the larger consortium. It is definitely intense, but in a way she might love.

CO Mines has a lot of cool nerdy-bonding traditions too. Especially good if she’d like a little “outdoorsy” mixed in with her “nerdy-intense.” E-Days - Signature Experience

Olin is amazing but super small - not everybody loves the idea of only about 100 students per class year. Worth a look, though, if that idea doesn’t turn her off.

Purdue has a lot of potential… maybe Virginia Tech also.

If she wants even fewer gen-eds and more focus on her major, she could consider Canadian U’s too.

Good luck, and enjoy the search!!

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I have to tell my Clarkson anecdote, because it just underscores what a big and varied country the United States is.

A buddy of mine from graduate school was hired on as a professor at Clarkson. He was currently a postdoc at Stanford, and struggling with the high cost of housing in the area about trying to raise his young family there. Acclimated to the bay area housing prices circa 2000, he called ahead to a realtor to see if he might be able to get his foot in the door on buying a home in Potsdam. The realtor asked him what price range he was looking at, and he winces and says “If we scrape together, we can probably come up with a downpayment on $400k”. He’s wondering if with the lower cost of living, this will get him maybe a low end condo, or a fixer-upper that they can work on over time. As the silence stretches on, he’s becoming embarrassed that his means are once again too meager to get into the housing market.

“Sir, there’s nothing here that expensive.”

:rofl:

He’s still in Potsdam and loves it there.

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I think you listed a lot of great points. I don’t think you need to worry about things like USAMO - maybe for a few schools. Most kids going to college - even great colleges - are just kids.

I do think - engineering is hard - even for top kids. It’s a 40-60% (depending on the study) non complete major - and we don’t know for sure she wants engineering. If she does, the where, short of a few schools, matters less because the Michigans and Alabamas etc. will be working together. Stud kids run into the brick wall and falll down - doesn’t mean they don’t make it through - but it’s many hours, a lot of stress, and a lot of work - whether you choose low ranked state school or high end school. My kid turned down Purdue with merit for a lower ranked southern school - and while he easily made it, looking back, we weren’t so sure that first year and he had to drop a class…so it’s does have the potential to knock a kid down to size.

Faculty access is often dependent on the kid, not the school - so if the student pursues, they can get. If they don’t, it won’t find them.

I personally wouldn’t worry about grading on a curve. I’d find the environment that works well for me - go there and excel. Kids from the schools that people avoid do just fine with grad school. A grading structure (to me) shouldn’t be why you avoid a school that you might like.

Based on what you describe, a Pitt might be better than a Purdue/Wisconsin/Michigan/UIUC - which might come off as overwhelming.

Case Western may be a good mid size to check. WPI - if the 7 week terms would fit. Rochester can be another. And Colorado School of Mines. Lafayette for an LAC - but maybe a bit too Greek.

I do worry that you mention a more chill, etc. desire - and then list a who’s who of top schools. And these aren’t always easy to get into.

And I do think - that even at the biggest “party” schools - you’ll find plenty who don’t.

btw - If she ultimately doesn’t want engineering, then maybe other ideas open up.

Good luck

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University of Rochester

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I second Pitt, and they have rolling admission. If your student applied when the application opens she could have a decision by October. It’s a great school for engineering!

Also Clarkson for a true safety. My daughter was very impressed.

RPI, Purdue, VT were great suggestions too. As was Buffalo.

I think a tour of the midwestern flagships would be worthwhile. Purdue has a wonderful honors college which makes a big school feel smaller. I’d suggest visits to Michigan, Purdue, UIUC and Wisconsin.

For mid sized Target, Lehigh is strong in engineering.

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Great suggestions and thought-points from the hive.

I don’t have the engineering expertise of most other posters so I won’t add much :smiley: other than to say two schools immediately came to mind when I read the OP: Case Western and U of Rochester. They are both strong in engineering (and STEM in general) but offer a more open and flexible curriculum. They allow easy change of major and offer majors outside of engineering/tech. Even if your D stays in engineering she may enjoy a school where she can also socialize with nerdy English majors. :smiley::smiley:

Best of luck. Your D sounds like a fantastic kid.

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Sounds like she wants close bonds to professors and research so I would really suggest the small to medium tech schools and LACs that also have engineering.

Unless - however - you feel they should push themselves to be at larger flagship program. Engineering is very close knit no matter where you go so often a tech crowd within a larger school. But they might be “a number” until junior/senior year. Also have to fight for research.

So, back to tech and LACs with Eng. maybe the questions to ask are (1) they want the tech/nerd school now - do they want to broaden? Do they need to broaden? (2) what if they change majors?

LACs with Eng and a strong undergraduate teaching focus would be good for professor relationships, options for research, to broaden and offer other majors , but perhaps at the expense of more party culture. They are often out in the sticks so people have To find things to do. Still, there is always an engineering sub-culture at these schools if that’s not your game, and combining Eng with something else is great for jobs.

examples

  • Lehigh
  • Bucknell
  • Lafayette
  • Clarkson
  • U of Rochester

Full disclosure. I’m a Bucknell Eng grad, NJIT masters, and I coached a student team at Lehigh.

If 100% sure on tech, then I agree with many of the Tech focused school examples mentioned above. If they liked RPI suggest you go see WPI and Steven’s which are in more lively locations. People rave about them.

  • WPI
  • RPI
  • Stevens
  • Olin
  • Rose Hulman
  • Harvey Mudd
  • Cooper Union
  • RIT