I am a psychotherapist and I work in a community mental health center, and I work with quite a number of adolescents in high school. I constantly witness the effects of high school pressure on these kids, but the worst thing I see are the feelings of anxiety and helplessness these kids experience because they believe that there are eight good colleges in the country and the rest of them are all crap. Sometimes there are a few other schools that make the cut, Stanford and MIT, of course, and a couple of other top 20 universities. This belief pretty much always comes from the parents. And the thing is, the parents have the best intentions. Most of them did not grow up in this country, and they want to see their children succeed, but they have been led to believe that there is only one very narrow path to success. They have communicated to their children that if they do not get into one of these schools they have failed and they will not be successful.
Wanting to go to an Ivy is not the issue. Of course there can be many good reasons why a person would want to attend one of these schools. But these kids, under the influence of their parents, are desperate to get into these schools before they know any single thing about them other than their prestige. My heart breaks for them because I know what the odds are. I know the odds are even slim for excellent students. Some of these kids are already feeling the pressure as high school freshmen. Having been through this process with my own child, I believe I have a very balanced and realistic perspective on the college admissions process. However, I am not a college admissions coach, I am a therapist. There are some things I can do when speaking with these kids and their parents, but I’m wondering if anyone has suggestions about where I might direct these families to get more information and that would help them gain the knowledge they need to broaden their perspectives and take the intense pressure off their children? I don’t think that these parents would be receptive to a book like Colleges That Change Lives, because I think the leap from Ivies to schools they have never heard of might be too much to stomach, at least initially. But any resources would be helpful. And I wish, in addition to college admissions consultants, there were “College admissions reality checkers” that worked for a reasonable fee! Maybe I should start a new field.
Send them to CC, with the suggestion that they chat with experienced posters. We give that message all day long. Doesn’t always get through, but sometimes it does.
You could become a college guidance counselor. That would probably be the most direct route to influencing students early in the process.
@intparent I wonder if sending them here would make things worse! I would worry that once they see all the stellar students who get rejected they would double down on the pressure! I know if I could only filter out all those threads and direct them to the helpful ones, hmmmm…
I used to be a teacher and I went back to school to become a therapist. I can’t imagine going back to work in a school! :))
Two resources that put the numbers of rejections in perspective:
Look for Will Dix’s chart, “Charge of the Bright Brigade” (it’s on Forbes which is really hard to make a working link tO so Google it).
The Princeton Review and Fiske guides would expose these parents to other schools out there. Rugg’s Recommendations puts a lot more than just the usual suspects in the top tier group for each major. The book “If the U Fits” and wiselikeus.com blog (both by the same author) talk about finding best fit colleges rather than highest prestige ones.
OP, the Frank Bruni book, “Where You Go Is Not Who You Will Be,” talks to your concern. I thought it was an OK read, but I’m not sure if will drive the point home to people who are truly obsessed with the Ivies, but its a start.
Yeah, I learned reality checking from CC, but I admit it takes a long time. The problem is, people don’t believe it because they don’t want to. Everyone thinks their kid has that special something. Well, all kids do, but only to their parents.
The parents need education on the wide range of school choices, and the excellent outcomes students have after attending. Much of this is cultural and may reflect how things work in the country of origin. Class is a word that we don’t throw around much, but is at the root of some of these obsessive pursuits of Ivies.
And to some, it is important to have a “name” school that everyone has heard of. Some of us have “heard of” a lot more schools than others. For instance, I have “heard of” Hamilton, or Davidson, or Grinnell and would be impressed by someone attending. Even schools like Amherst and Williams are off the radar of some.
I also think that high schools need to deal with this better. They could hold workshops for parents and students alike, on the options for schools, the realistic odds for Ivies etc., how to research schools, career outcomes etc.
There are some good books out there. Loren Pope wrote Colleges that Change Lives of course (and the website is useful) but he also wrote a book called “Looking Beyond the Ivy League”- outdated perhaps but very good. I had a book entitled “Creative Colleges” that we really liked. There are lots of books out there.
There is a film on this- does anyone remember the title?
The kids are programmed by the parents, in my experience, and it is hard to get through to them on this. When they are older and more mature, maybe, but of course that is too late.
Nice of you to worry about this…
ps I do want to add that Ivies are indeed great experiences for many; but there are large lectures, grad TA’s, and liberal arts colleges are more personalized so better for some…so maybe talking about the education itself will help
Another organization to look into is Challenge Success. They work on academic pressure more broadly, rather than just focusing on Ivy-pressure specifically.
Do you get a chance to talk to them before they have applied to schools or do they just come to you after they have applied (and been rejected or are suffering the stress of waiting…)?
If they come to you before applying, you might try to explain to them that:
They should choose schools based on Fit and Cost
Typical fit variables include things like Academics, Environment, and Social vibe.
To find out if a school will probably be affordable, run the Net Price Calculator (NPC)
Do not just apply to highly selective "Reach" schools. Kids should also apply to matches and at least one safety.
Every school to which the kid applies should be one which he or she likes and can afford.
If they follow these relatively simple guidelines, they can rest easier while the apps are being evaluated and they can be fairly certain that their admissions outcome will be a happy one:
With a safety, they are highly unlikely to be “shut out”; and they won’t be stuck with a school they either don’t like or can’t afford.
Race to Nowhere is about the pressure put on high school kids and how unprepared they are for college even with the AP arms race. But I can tell you that the type of parents the OP is talking about can see that movie a dozen times and not think it applies to them. I’ve witnessed this at one of the high schools my daughter attended. The counseling staff really tried to open a dialogue by showing that film, but all the parents had to say was “who are the whiny people in this movie and how does it apply to us?”
I don’t doubt your assertion that parents often play a significant role.
In our experience, it was a tidal wave of pressure from the wider culture at our kid’s private high school in an affluent community. The “best” students go to the “best” private schools and it’s a capstone year of sizing each other up in high school.
It’s natural to yearn to have bragging rights, and to have the adults fall over themselves in praise and admiration over the college you are attending. And the school itself? Of course the school is anxious to post on the web site a long list of prestigious acceptances. Everyone knows this. It goes way, way beyond what parents say about college.
No amount of Frank Bruni, spreadsheets with our estimated net COA, talking up other options, pep talks about blooming where you are planted could convince our kid away from the notion that her self-worth & trajectory in life was wrapped up in where she was accepted and where she would matriculate.
She told us straight out she was embarrassed to tell people where she was going to school (an OOS flagship on full ride) and how tragic it was we couldn’t afford to send her to a top 20. This was ruining her life, in her opinion.
I think a lot of people might agree with her, or pity her financial restraints.
What can you do? Teens are paying attention to their peers and their sub-culture. What do the parents know?
I work with some Ivy grads. I also work with a few Duke, Vandy, Stanford, Rice, etc. grads. All great schools. I’ve worked with grads from Ivies enough to say that I have zero Ivy League envy. Not impressed. At all.
I don’t judge people based on their degree I judge them based on their ability to do their jobs which involves solving problems, critical thinking, communication skills, and the ability to get along with others and be a team player. Some of the big ticket degree folks I work with are extremely good at those things but no better than the FSU, UF or UCF grads I work with. There you go.
The irony is that many Harvard grads spend a lifetime too embarrassed to say where they went to school, and when they do tell people (like at work) they get stereotyped as “smart girl” or “smart guy” and expectations are sky high, along with resentment for their so called charmed lives.
There are over 3000 colleges and universities in the United States. Therefore, over 300 in the top 10%. If you are in the Northeast, there are wonderful schools in the Midwest and South that are often overlooked because they aren’t on the coasts. Point out that lots of smart, self made Americans did not come from the Ivy League. I know several billionaires who did not receive their undergraduate degree from an Ivy League school.
Try to point out that there are multiple paths to success in the US and you don’t have to go to an Ivy or peer school to achieve whatever it is that you want. Try to get them to focus on longer-term goals other than what college they get in to. And even if they fixate on an Ivy or something like that, point out that there are all sorts of alternate paths out there. Good respected unis overseas, good options for working adults (Columbia GS, Penn LPS, and Harvard Extension), and 3-2 engineering programs by Columbia and WashU (guaranteed transfer in the case of Columbia if you hit the requirements and elite masters programs), so killing yourself and stressing yourself out in HS just for the crapshoot of elite American college admissions seems crazy. Broaden their minds. Unlike like in some other countries, you don’t have to follow a narrow rigid path on a time scale determined for you to do amazingly well in life.
I presume they know of Jobs and Buffett and the founders of Google. Where did they get their undergrad degrees from?
I wonder where these parents who push their kids to Ivies came from, Europe, Asia, Africa, South America? I know some US and Asian parents stir their kids into whatever schools that help them get to medical schools in 4 years, if not a BS/MD combo in the first place.
The problem is, people don’t believe it because they don’t want to. Everyone thinks their kid has that special something. Well, all kids do, but only to their parents.