High GPA, low and lop-sided ACT-reach schools too reachy?

But at some schools, the impact of ballet can only come on top of the rest of what they need to see. She’s not applying to performing arts (maybe she should.) At the extreme example, Yale, she’ll compete against other dancers, artists, and actors with stronger packages. I think OP gets that. She needs to work the asset in the best way.

When we speak of math skills, imo, the point is analytical skills and perspective. Did she take advanced math classes? And for any college that wants to see the logic in her choice of IR, how did that develop, how did she pursue it?

@calmom I agree with what you are saying but I also think it’s fair to say that Yale is going to have its pick of ballerinas and ultimately will be able to choose those with scores that better fit their profile

I wasn’t saying Yale-- my point is that you can’t make an assumption about “course rigor” based on lack of weighted grades for a student who spent a year away from their home school. If the student has a 4.0 GPA uw, it means that she’s never gotten a grade lower than an A. If going into her senior year she’s got a 4.17 w GPA, it may simply mean that the school doesn’t offer many AP’s/honors courses before junior year… and the kid missed out on the opportunity to take those junior-year APs when she accepted the ballet scholarship.

The ad com would easily figure that out from the high school transcript.

The student doesn’t want to major in dance. She just wants to be able to dance…there is a difference.

Her bang up LOR from the school counselor will not make up for her less than stellar SAT scores (math/CR total).

Don’t get me wrong, she sounds like a great kid with much to offer…but her list is not well balanced…it seems very top heavy to me…all the way around.

Why does she want to come 3000 miles from home? In other words…why BC and Yale?

Just saying, we’re all leery about Yale, which also makes it the convenient extreme example.

The right math rigor, and an A, might take some of the sting out of the math scores, if they like the rest of the package. But she’s only now in pre-calc, so no rigor there and no grade to apply with. And again, nothing said, so far, that backs up the IR.

I know there are exceptions- my D1 also had a bad math score, which she overcame- but it needs the right strategy. I don’t think OP cant count on this GC being on top of her game. This is a senior just beginning to develop a strategy, makes me wonder, why?

Not saying this girl is likely getting into Yale, but if not those with “hooks”, who has the bottom 25% stats? I couldn’t find the ACT breakdown for Yale, but at Harvard, 10% of enrolled freshman had an ACT in the 24-29 range. I’m guessing most of those being 28-29, but there was something that made those students stand out over the kids with a 34 that didn’t get accepted, right?

As for applying to reaches goes, I think if that’s what you really want to do and you don’t mind paying the app fee and spending the time on the app, apply to as many as you want. Just realize they are reaches and be ready for rejections and also apply to some really good matches.

If she has no IR experience she should just apply as undecided. That’s what my son did for the most part. The only logical EC at his high school was Model UN which according to him had all the hard drinkers and over-involved parents. He wanted nothing to do with it. He did the ECs that his friends did. Not all ad coms expect 18 year-olds to know what they want to do with your life. Having done interesting things in high school however is a big plus.

Reading all comments-thank you for your thoughts.

I think the year of dance was important. As was stated above, as far as she knew, she was the only student that was doing both full time high school and full time dance, so yes, her course rigor wasn’t “up to par”, though she did take two honors classes and AP Bio (but did not take the exam) while dancing full time. I haven’t seen her transcripts, but will tonight. Apparently, there was a challenge getting the weighted honors classes that she took freshman and sophomore year onto her transcripts, but I think she said they are going to get them on, so her weighted GPA of 4.19 may go up.

Yes, she could have taken more rigor in junior and senior year. The school offers 14 APs (including Studio Art, Calc B/C, and AP Physics 1, all of which she wouldn’t take because of level/interest), and she only took two APs each year. I think she “played it safe” to protect her 4.0 u/w, and only took the AP exams that she would do well in (as attested by the 5s that she got on her two exams).

We’ll be skyping tonight and working on college list and plan of action. I used the new site, College Raptor, and plugged in her GPA and ACT as well as IR as a major. Came up with some interesting matches, safeties and reaches including Boston College, her other “dream” school.

Some schools that came up: Lafayette, Dickenson and UCSB as matches. UCD, Beloit, Kalamazoo, Lewis and Clark, and Ohio State as near safties. Boston Univ, Carlton and Haverford as reaches. Huge reaches were Yale, Brown and Stanford. (Funny they even have this category)

I cannot really speak about her low math score other than it’s simply a weakness. I would have to look deeper into the statistics of this school and its success or failure in kids taking math classes before I draw any conclusions.

I know my own son who has a math disability also took pre-calculus in his senior year fall semester. The big difference is that I had a tutor for him in every single math class he ever took (my oldest son and later, another math genius friend of ours). (They were both free!) That gave him the support he needed to end up with a 750 on SAT math and a 730 on Math II, as well as an A in Calc I in spring of senior year. This young lady did not have that kind of support. She clearly did well enough in whatever classes she had, but was it taught well? Who knows. Fact remains, I will encourage her to work on boosting the math score on the ACT. My own son raised his SAT math by 60 points just by doing practice problems.

I have very ambivalent feelings about what is better, high u/w GPA and lower test scores, or less than perfect GPA an a higher test score. My own son, 2230 SAT, but u/w 3.87 GPA and some real struggles in several areas (he got three Bs, all at the community college, during high school, but really struggled early in high school because of some disabilities), is heading to Penn after a gap year. He’s smart, but I’m not sure he’s up for the rigor.

Which kind of student is better poised for the rigors of a school such as an Ivy or other top college? (Neither??)

Anyhow, I think we’re better prepared to make a new college list with only a couple reaches on it. If she scores really well on the new ACT, we can reevaluate. I think for now, she likely won’t do EA anywhere. She’s coming late to the party for whatever reason. (As you can tell, I don’t know the family well. They came to me as a friend of a friend, and I really enjoyed working with the older daughter two years ago. She was a very average student, but equally interesting background of early homeschool followed by transition to regular high school.)

@dbandmom I think it’s fairly safe to assume that those admitted in the bottom 25% have hooks such as recruited athlete, donor potential, backing of a trustee, URM, celeb or other famous parent/family. Of course there are exceptions, but 1 yr as a pro dancer is probably not it

It’s not even easy when the kid is in the 2nd to bottom quartile, when any college gets enough apps to cherry pick.

If that’s the reason, then yes, she might have the rigor.

And yes, I am aware of the time a serious ballet student devotes to dance. My niece, who is a professional in NYC, went to SAB in the summers, took company class with Hubbard Street, and was a dance major at Tisch.

My editing got messed up and I mistakenly deleted an entire post. One of the things I said in it was that I thought @calmom was correct in suggesting Barnard, a reachy school where her ballet creds could really move the needle.

I don’t think that one year at SAB is going to be enough to get her into Yale. Why did she leave? A likely answer is wrong body type. SAB is obsessed with the small head, small torso, long slender limbs Suzanne Farrell look, at least historically. My niece was offered a place at the San Francisco Ballet school, and chose not to take it but remain at her private school in Chicago. She wasn’t offered a place at SAB because of the body type issue. She had breasts. :slight_smile:

Ad coms at Yale and the other Ivies aren’t going to be up on this. They take those who have made it already. Yo Yo Ma. Jodie Foster. Et al.

Fwiw, also think Barnard is a good one to explore. But, eyes wide open.

Just me, but I think huge reaches are just a throw away. The schools listed as your reaches will suffice…

Sorry, what is SAB? I think I missed that. This student was at Joffrey. She left because she realized she wanted to pursue academics rather than professional dance. She still is invovled in dance, but on a local level. She has the body type for a ballerina, but her passion is contemporary, I believe.

I had suggested Scripps, but she was not keen on an all girls school. We’ll talk about it more.

School of the American Ballet.

It depends.

High GPA / low test scores: is it due to some type of issue that causes problems on those tests, but not other academic work, or is it due to taking less rigorous “easy A” courses?

Low GPA / high test scores: is it due to highly rigorous courses that are difficult to do well in, or is it due to being “smart but lazy”?

Or disabilities (learning, medical, and physiological), as is the case with my son. He’s not lazy. This student is not lazy. But it takes a special kind of smart, hard working, high achieving student to be successful at a top school.

Your son with 3.87 unweighted GPA (including college courses taken while in high school) and 2230 SAT seems to be high GPA / high test score, as opposed to one of the other profiles. Not sure why you would have to worry to a high degree about whether he can handle college academics.

Or high GPA low test scores can be dependent on the high school, ie grade inflation, lack of rigor etc

There are a lot of students with high grades and so-so standardized test scores. Colleges get it. These kids all get into schools. The college admissions committees look at GPA and strength of schedule first and foremost.