I still believe that everyone deserves an equal chance. Extra points just isn’t fair no matter how much you put into perspective. The college admissions generally go “other minorities > white > Asian.” For example, a black person or Hispanic person may just need a 2000 to get into an Ivy, a white person maybe a 2100. An Asian would probably need somewhere close to perfect. It’s is truly unfair.
Admissions usually say “We want the best students to form the best possible class” like okay. But, what does race have to do with that? My parents recently chose a white name and told me to check the “Caucasian” box or “Other” (to appear mixed) when applying for colleges just so I won’t be discriminated.
The fact that students have to deny their heritage in order to be put on an equal pedestal of other candidates is truly a sad thing.
@ak2018@averagebean I’m not 100% confident where I stand on affirmative action, although the point of “adding” points seems false. The point of affirmative action is to take race in as a factor in a holistic review of each applicant. As seen with the internationals from China etc. these students consistently produce very high test scores and their affluent backgrounds allow for plentiful EC’s however they often make weak students. This is created and used as a method to elevate a race which is in general worse off than others. To give students which often have very little opportunity a better direction. It is meant to create a level playing field which is tough to disagree with. However, what bothers me more is it should be based more on economic status than race because I feel that is a larger factor in opportunity through out high school. Also this us can definitely be called reverse discrimination, and being white I feel like I could receive backlash from this in the future. Where is the line drawn to compare achievements and create a level playing field? I’m not sure. These effects are often most impactful at the level of elite colleges and students who are worthy applicants there can find success anywhere I believe because they will have SOME opportunity.
@reidd799 I personally am against Affirmative Action due to their huge racial factor. I agree that it should be based more on an economic standpoint because there ARE Asians and white people who have a low socioeconomic background as well. I see where you’re coming from with the reverse discrimination. Some studies showed that when states like California, Washington, Florida, etc. eliminated Affirmative Action, the population of white people and Asians skyrocketed while Hispanic, black and other minorities declined. So basically, eliminating Affirmative Action benefits both white people and Asians and also puts all races on a mostly equal pedestal hence the high Asian population at UCLA (seriously, there are A LOT of Asians there). All hail UC’s - I love you, California.
Also, after banning Affirmative Action, the U of Washington started looking into more socioeconomic factors and started asking more questions such as personal hardships, work or family obligations. It also funds newer Financial Aid programs (e.g. Nebraska offers full-paid tuition on all Nebraska campuses to students who are Pell Grant recipients). Not only that, legacy students also have less of a chance (rip me lol).
Frick Affirmative Action. Either do it fairly based off socioeconomic factors or not at all.
@Hamlon very well said.
We actually had a discussion in my Language Arts class last year about affirmative action. I really liked how my teacher phrased it:
“Let’s say you (being white in a fairly wealthy private school, in our cases in class) get the same high SAT score as an African American student in an urban neighborhood where most families are below the poverty line, and only one of you can get into the college that you both apply to. Assuming all other factors are equal, they will likely have a better chance at you than getting in.” - We all agreed that this was fair, after all, why should we have the better chance? We would be more likely to find other opportunities.
“Now let’s say they scored x amount of points lower than you (I don’t remember the numbers we discussed). They still might have a better chance than you.” At this point, many kids started saying that they did not think this was fair. The person with the higher test score, they argued, should get in, regardless of race or socioeconomic status.
But then, he made the point that that kid’s lower score is probably more impressive than your higher score. Why? Because in our environment, our teachers, parents, and community want us to succeed. Most families have the resources to pay for a prep class/tutor/multiple prep books. But that hypothetical student probably had to work a lot harder to get the score they did, as they were not in an educational environment conducive to academic success and did not have the same resources available when studying. Of course, these are two extremes of the spectrum and in reality, the situation is a lot less clear-cut. But still, I found this way of thinking about it to be very interesting and pretty fair.
I kind of agree with @reidd799 that maybe admissions should be based more on economic status, but historically economic status has corresponded with race in this country. I think above all academic success really correlates with your educational environment - how willing others are to help you succeed, who in your community can serve as a role model, and even with this academic and emotional support, whether or not someone can pay for it is a huge factor. @averagebean I hear what you’re saying but affirmative action isn’t trying to give URMs a better chance at admission, it’s trying to bring everyone to an even ground.
@averagebean Does affirmative action apply to Middle Easterners when applying to college? I’m Middle-Eastern and I always hear that I should put either White or Other Race on applications. Sometimes, I get confused though. I’m part of an underrepresented minority group ~ where does that go in an application?
@preciousdiamond Your question is apart of a larger issue over how the U.S. collects racial data. The racial makeup of our country tends to change faster than the government can keep up. Arabs have historically been placed in the same category as Asians, Africans, and Caucasians. There have been movements from the Middle Eastern community to get their own category, but this will probably take a while. Hispanics have the same problem too. They don’t officially have their own category, so many put Caucasian or other. That’s why applications also ask you if you are Latino seperate from the rest of the race/ethnicity section. I did some googling and found this girl’s experience.
Nicole Salame, 19, was filling out an application to UCLA last year when she got to the question about race and ethnicity. She thought a mistake had been made. . . . Her Lebanese-born mother told her Arabs are considered white, but Salame didn’t believe her. Her high school counselor told her the same thing. . . . For years the federal government has classified Arab Americans and Middle Easterners as white. But confusion and disagreement have led some students to check “Asian” or “African,” depending on what part of the Middle East they came from. Some, like Salame, simply marked “Other.”
It seems that one solution for you would be to mark “other” and include something about your heritage and how it’s shaped your experience in your essays. I’m not sure if you’d be considered an URM though.
I’m thinking of running for Key Club Secretary and Junior Class Secretary but I’m scared if I run for both I will probably lose Key Secretary and lower my chances of getting it. Or should I just run for ASB cabinet or Commissioner again?
however, as an African american female aren’t you happy that you are given more leeway, even though in the workfield you may face discrimination like your mother does don’t you feel it benefits you in terms of college admission. All in all URM’s do face more discrimination because of affirmative action
But it’s still not fair to those who were born in well-off families. Even if we can afford prep books and classes, it doesn’t mean we’re working less hard than those without. College admissions shouldn’t be based on anything out of our control
@Hamlon I definitely agree. Living in the DC area, I’ve seen many people of color sent to these inferior schools. I went to a middle school where 50% of the students and were likely better off than most. However, there were certain teachers who slightly discriminated against the black students and some who favored them, usually the black teachers. I actually remember in 8th grade, I created a really good relationship with our school’s football and track coach and one of our PE teachers, who was also black. He also has a reputation for both favoring and being hard on some of the black students, depending on their attitude. I remember he literally “fired” our football team’s quarterback because his actions showed that he was better than everyone else because of his position. The reason: he stood in the shade instead of standing in the sun with the rest of the team. A lot of us thought it was BS, but it did make sense. He came off as being arrogant, and my coach doesn’t tolerate arrogance. If you had seen the movie Remember the Titans, he was portrayed in it. He had gone through a lot of discrimination in his day due to his skin color. He was even slightly discriminated on his football team. By the way, Remember The Titans is about T.C. Williams High School, a school not more than an hour’s drive away for me, dealing with the inclusion of black people on the school’s football team and starts out with T.C. Williams first year of desegregation. It was based on the true story that my coach had lived, as he has lived in this area for many years.
I have decided to change the intended major from nursing to bio-medical engineering. However, I’m pretty sure that involves chemistry, biology, AND PHYSICS!!! Ugh! My schedule can’t fit that! So, I’m thinking about asking my counselor to switch me out of AP Psychology with AP Physics 1 for next year’s coarse load. I will also be taking AP Chemistry. So my schedule will look like this:
AP Chem
AP Physics 1
AP Calc BC
AP Lang
US history
French 3
Is this too much??? Two AP science courses sounds like a lot, but I feel like I might be able to handle it…MIGHT…
Does anyone know about the course load of AP Chem/Physics 1/ Calc BC??? PLEAsE HELP!!!
@Hamlon The last post was more of me rambling, but is still an interesting story. I still agree. I remember my father telling me, back when I was applying to the Thomas Jefferson School for Science and Technology, after we had got back from the school’s interest meeting that the likeliness of me getting in was very low because of my race. He observed that there were a lot of White and Asian families, and we were the only black people there. I disagreed with him, saying that if I actually worked hard enough, I could get in, despite my race. He also argued that my brother would never get in because of the way he dresses and acts. I argued that since the school does not conduct interviews, if he actually put in the effort in school, he would also have a chance. You see, my brother, he’s know as the rebel/troublemaker of the family. He’s two years younger than me and acts like most of the black people at my middle school, which means he’s going to fit in. I believe that if he actually put in the work, he would be able to accomplish anything, despite his race. Because of me believing in him, and showing how hard life would be for a guy like him without a college degree, he has now chosen a career path in video game design and plans to take Art next year as a freshman. My father is also a nurse and is also a Ghanaian immigrant. He had recently got his degree from GMU in 2007. By his high expectations, I must go to a university, not a community college. My mother never went to college.
@averagebean I also believe there should be equal chances for all races. But by banning Affirmative Action, it doesn’t seem fair to Blacks and Hispanics. So, in this case, it went from being not fair to Whites and Asians, and has become more fair Asians and Whites and somewhat unfair to Blacks and Hispanics. So the situation has now flip-flop in their favor. I still believe that we should all be on the same playing field, but that doesn’t sound like equality to me. I do know that there are Whites and Asians going through hard times and that colleges should not assume that you they don’t need financial help. But there are many people going through hard times in every race. Idk I’m kind of just rambling here to be honest. I’m still trying to make sense of the situation.
