High school science course progression for future APs

Pre-College Topics
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My 8th grade son is building his HS freshman schedule and tentative 4 year plan. Disclaimer that he is obviously very young and his interests may change, so he will pivot accordingly, but he currently thinks he will want to pursue engineering (he specifically mentions chemical engineering). He doesn’t want to make any choices that will put him a bind later trying to fit in his sciences. He could do chemistry I honors or physics I honors in 9th grade, but doesn’t have room for both. Most of the kids on his track do chemistry in 9th.

His high school offers both AP Physics C: Mechanics (prereq Physics I Honors) and AP Physics C: E&M. Also AP Chemistry (prereq Chem I Honors) and AP Biology (prereq Bio I Honors), and AP Calc AB & BC (prereq AB). All are full-year courses.

If he maintains his current thoughts about his future goals, he could be looking at taking both AP Calc courses and both AP Physics C courses in 11th & 12th grade. The question then is where should AP Chemistry slot in? Current thought is to forego AP Biology unless his interests change in that direction.

His school allows students to enroll in AP Chemistry in 10th, 11th, or 12th. It is the only AP science allowed in 10th grade. AP Chemistry sophomore year seems very early to me.

Pros:

  • foundational material will be fresh if taking chemistry in 9th
  • can avoid taking AP Chem and AP Physics C in the same year

Cons:

  • chem in 9th & 10th but then not again until college seems not ideal if he does end up sticking with his interest in chemical engineering (he could maybe take organic chem/biochem supplementary courses junior or senior year if space allowed)
  • concern about a 10th grader being able to do their best on AP Chemistry material, which seems like it would be very important (both grade and AP test score). I know this is a hard one and did not do well on the AP Chem exam myself back in the day!

His other option is to take physics I honors in 9th grade instead of chemistry I honors.

Pros:

  • If not wanting to take AP Chem in 10th grade, closes the gap between chemistry courses (could take chem I in 10th and AP Chem in 11th)

Cons:

  • would mean a year gap in physics exposure before jumping into AP Physics C in 11th grade
  • would have to take chemistry I honors in 10th grade, so AP Chemistry could only be done in 11th or 12th, meaning it would have to be taken concurrently with AP Physics C and AP Calculus if he does both years of AP physics/calc courses.

Tentative plan:

8th: Biology I Honors (on HS transcript)
9th: Chemistry I Honors
10th: Physics I Honors, AP Chemistry
11th: AP Physics C: Mechanics
12th: AP Physics C: E&M

I suppose another possibility would be only doing AP Physics C: Mechanics in 12th grade, but if he does persist with wanting engineering, as much physics exposure as possible in high school seems beneficial, and I think at his HS it’s common for the most STEM-focused kids to take both years of Physics C. That could look like this:

8th: Biology I Honors (on HS transcript)
9th: Chemistry I Honors or Physics I Honors (not both)
10th: whichever wasn’t done last year
11th: AP Physics C: Mechanics OR AP Chemistry
12th: whichever wasn’t done last year

It is very unlikely he will pursue highly selective colleges, more mid-range midwest schools with reaches being Purdue (in-state), Rose Hulman, or Case Western (and obviously don’t even know yet if he will be interested in those schools). It’s great that his school gives so many opportunities for advanced courses, but he also wants to enjoy high school and not just try to cram in APs without thinking about what makes the most sense for his future plans as well as his current mental health. We are very aware that his 4 year plan will likely shift around as he grows up and he follows his interests as he develops, so not looking to set anything in stone now, just pondering his freshman year science selection and how that could impact various future scenarios. He will seek opinions from the teachers/department chairs as he moves through HS as well. Appreciate any thoughts from those more experienced in this area. Thanks!

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Rule of thumb - 4 years in all 5 core classes (math, history, English, science and foreign language).

For science - one year of biology, one year of chem, one year of physics and then one of those in AP.

IMO, I’d recommend chemistry before physics.

Reach the highest level of math possible at your school.

I am the mom of a recent chem e grad from Purdue. She moved from public to private school between middle school and high school so had to retake honors biology as a 9th grader. She was glad she did as the curriculum and labs were much more in depth than what she had as an 8th grader. She took honors chem in 10th, honors physics in 11th and both AP Physics C (mechanics and E&M) and AP chem senior year.

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Two of my kids took honors bio and honors physics freshman year, not exactly sure why (they ended up as business majors).

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I’m interested that she took both AP Physics C courses and AP chemistry concurrently senior year. Did that feel manageable to her? My son’s HS does allow AP Physics C: Mech and AP Physics C: E&M to be taken concurrently, but both are full-year classes. He could potentially fit both physics C classes in for 12th grade if he took AP Chem in 11th grade, but I assumed they would be better spread over 2 years. Thank you for your response!

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The only way he could fit in two sciences freshman year would be not taking orchestra, which is a no-go for him. It’s difficult for these kids to have to make choices so young!

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My D’s HS ran AP physics as a college course - mechanics one semester, E&M the next.

If your child still has chem E intentions junior year, I’d recommend AP chem junior year and AP physics C mechanics senior year.

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Our high school had a similar course progression to yours. My son (currently a physics major who also considered engineering) took the standard freshman biology class in 9th grade. He also couldn’t double up on sciences that year because of Orchestra. He took honors chem in 10th which was a prereq for AP Chem. He doubled up on on science in 11th grade with AP Chem and AP physics 1 (pre req for Physics C). He then took the Physics C courses senior year which were taught as semester long classes at his school. I’m also going to add that he was one of maybe two or three kids his year who ever doubled up on science classes and that his private school in Georgia sends a lot of kids to Georgia Tech. He decided to load up on science classes because he enjoyed them not because it was necessary for college admissions. The progression at our school meant that the top students would normally take one of AP Chem, physics C or AP bio senior year. I agree with @momofboiler1 to prioritize AP Chem and maybe Physics C mech - but that’s a decision that probably can wait until you are figuring out his junior year schedule.

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I think having both AP Physics C courses offered, and both as full-year instead of semester-long, is really throwing me. They offer around 20 AP classes but all are full-year and I feel like it makes it hard to schedule because you have to pick which ones are your priorities. I want him to have a healthy level of challenge and preparation for college without pushing himself to hard, and without him feeling like he has to “check boxes” rather than explore all high school has to offer. I appreciate the response!

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Most people at my high school who want to go into science or engineering end up doubling up on science courses in their junior and senior year so that they can get all the AP’s in. Is that a possibility?

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Physics C E&M is not as widely offered as the other science APs. The most important AP courses are Calc AB/BC, Chemistry, Physics C Mechanics, AP Language, then either APUSH/Government. E&M is a bonus.

As another poster mentioned, if E&M is really important, then take one each semester at community college.

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He could double up, but I would be hesitant about this jr/sr year because I want him to have the time to really devote to doing well on the AP courses he does take and that are needed most for his future goals, and I understand all the AP sciences are very challenging. From what I’ve read, AP Biology would be a “nice to have” but not a “need to have” for his current goals. Maybe after a couple of years he will be excelling and wanting to do this; we’ll see!

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Thank you, that’s the impression I was getting. His tentative plan includes Calc AB/BC, Chem, Phys C Mech, AP Lang, and AP Gov. I am hoping he can avoid the pressure of the “AP arms race” and focus in on really doing well on the ones that are the most important for him, so this is encouraging to hear.

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I recommend that first idea with AP Chem in 10th. Then he can do chem woot and Olympiad junior year and again senior if desired.

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Are you sure the HS does not have any exception paths to skipping certain pre-reqs? I know when our oldest went to HS we (and he) knew nothing about that schools exceptions because they intentionally didn’t promote them. But then there were a bunch of parents in the know so some of his peers did that. It was weird how it was a below-the-radar option where if you knew you knew. But net net it meant some students were able to skip AB and some where able to skip the non-AP Physics before the AP ones. Required some combo of summer testing, teacher req and A in previous science or math classes.

Our HS is now like yours with a full year each for Physics C ME and EM. But it wasn’t that wa until a year ago – it used to be one year long class for both tests. And seems like the kids did great on the tests so not sure why they changed it.

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My chemical engineering major kid did nearly this exact plan and it was perfect for him. At our encouragement, he also avoided the AP arms race and was very happy to have done so. He got a year’s worth of credits (the max he could use anyway), and felt ideally prepared for his college work.

This was his route:

8th: Biology I Honors (on HS transcript)
9th: Chemistry I Honors
10th: AP Physics I (required prereq for AP physics C at his school)
11th: AP Chemistry
12th: AP Calc BC, AP Physics C: Mechanics, E&M

I’d first prioritize math, then chem, then physics. Math is the language of engineering, so it’s important to be fluent. Basically all engineering majors need to take chem, and it’s nice to get it out of the way. Physics is also super important, but is so important that many engineering majors repeat it in college, even with AP credits. It’s best to make sure you get a really strong physics foundation, and it doesn’t need to be rushed. Just a bit of explaining the rationale behind the “priorities”.

He didn’t end up taking the E&M AP exam because his teacher ran out of time on that unit. Which was fine because the tradeoff was getting a ton of instruction in mechanics.

His only other APs were english language and AP foreign language. He did a computer science course at a community college, just because he wanted to get his feet wet with coding and the HS coding teacher had a bad reputation.

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I don’t think skipping physics I will be an option, but that’s an important point that it never hurts to ask if you think your child is ready. I did ask the HS science department chair if most students on this path do both Physics C classes, and they said they really only have around 15 students each year who are passionate enough about physics that they want to take E&M. Thank you!

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Thank you so much for this! It’s so helpful to see what course plans worked for others. It’s good to hear a success story where the student didn’t max out on all APs in every possible subject. Our school pushes other APs like AP Stats, AP World, APUSH, but I just don’t feel like every kid needs to take every AP and it can cause undue stress for a lot of kids and take time away from other activities that are important to them and make them a more interesting person.

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If the school doesn’t make it an option, so be it. But I would say, some students find it easier to start with Physics C than the typical Physics 1 class. Again, just depends on the student. For students who have already started calc or are at least taking it concurrently, and who generally like and respond well to advanced math, it can make more sense for some of them to dive right into calculus-based physics, which is its natural form, rather than first learning the non-calc version. Again, totally get that some schools don’t want kids varying from the path and I respect that. Just saying if they did, it’s not inherent that all kids benefit from a class before C.

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Colleges are more likely not to give subject credit for physics C, particularly E&M, due to lower math intensity (AP physics C specifies only concurrent enrollment in calculus, while college physics for engineering and physics majors typically starts after one semester of calculus or AP calculus credit, with E&M needing multivariable calculus at least concurrently) and sometimes greater topic coverage in the college courses.

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This is a good point. It’s helpful to put into E&M into context like that. It might end up making more sense for him to take Mechanics senior year after having already finished Calc AB and not worry about fitting E&M into high school.

As far as AP Chem, there is a year before he has to make the decision to take that in 10th grade or not, so we will see how things feel then. There is also an option for him to take organic chemistry and biochemistry advanced science electives (1 semester each), and if he plans for AP Chem in 11th and AP Phys C: Mech in 12th, he might be able to take both of those in 10th grade concurrently with taking physics I honors so he can keep his feet wet a little bit on chemistry if he has a year gap between chemistry I honors and AP Chem. That will be a discussion to have with the teachers at that time for their thoughts. Did anyone else’s child take additional advanced science electives like that?