I agree with mamation about addressing this directly. But I would deal with the teacher directly and not go to the principal. Alerting the teacher to the power of his words, and also to the apparent bias against the female gender, might do a lot more good than a complaint.
A teacher I respected stunned me when she said to my youngest (who had done no reading over the summer, mainly because she is a dancer) “You are not like your brother and sister are you?” (Siblings read a lot, were academically successful.)
I had praised this teacher in the past. But I emailed her and said I was so surprised she had said this and that it had been hurtful to my daughter. I just asked her to think about it. She apologized and I hope she did think about it. I didn’t tell anyone else.
Is everyone here certain that this is exactly what the teacher actually said? Or is there. Possibility this is why the student interpreted her to have said. Or is this what the parent interpreted as the conversation?
If a person can be that easily dissuaded from a particular major BEFORE doing much (if any) in the field, it is unlikely the person would really stick with that field. Teachers are just another set of folks that our kids will encounter and each will undoubtably have an opinion, good or bad.
For what it’s worth, I was told in no uncertain terms that law was a BAD field for women and my relatives who were attorneys strongly discouraged me from going into it. I ended up deciding to pursue a career in law and once I had decided for sure I was going to it, got nothing but support and encouragement.
Similarly, I discourage people from going into law without having a good understanding of the good AND BAD aspects of it and that many folks burn out or don’t even practice law. If they decide to pursue it anyway, I give them my full support and encouragement.
However, most bachelor’s degree graduates (in any major, including psychology) do not go on to graduate or professional school. So, for most students who will enter the job market at bachelor’s degree graduation, what is relevant are the job prospects and pay levels (a) for jobs associated with their majors at the bachelor’s degree level, and (b) for jobs which typically hire those with bachelor’s degree but are major-agnostic.
I would not be surprised if this issue were widespread. In US high schools, writing instruction is mostly in the context of analyzing English literature. So some students may end up thinking that they are not good writers due to difficulty or dislike of analyzing English literature, and/or may have some difficulty writing about other subjects if the other subjects tend to expect different writing styles from literary analysis.
@absdad, I’m sure that’s what the teacher would say they were thinking, and considering this appears to be a teacher your D likes and respects, l imagine they don’t come across as sexist in their everyday interactions.
I’m just trying to point out the flaw in their thinking.
Assuming we all agree that serious gender imbalances in any given profession can be a problem considering consumers/clients/patients tend to be more or less equally distributed: Imagine the kid in question were a boy/young man, and a teacher tried to dissuade from going into CS, arguing that there are too many men and not enough women In the field, that women customers were complaining that tech solutions don’t work well for them, that tech firms were trying to hire more women, that, as a boy, he needed to expect more competition in the field - and therefore, just shouldn’t do it.
Feels odd? It should!
We have a brand new teacher in my elementary school who was a psych major at Lehigh, who went on to get a masters in education. I think its great that such an intelligent, successful person has become a teacher, and psych is a strong foundation.
One fallacy in the teacher’s logic - even if it were true that people preferred to go to someone of their own gender for counseling, females are much more likely to seek out mental health than males.
Psych can be about curiosity, observation, and more. Parts can be more science based. But it’s a shame to discourage a young person who has an idea. It’s not like some fields where you either have the talent established (eg, math, for stem, or years of honing music skills, for a music major.) I say, let her explore.
Seriously? If one conversation “talked her out of it”, how in was she?
I would simply tell her that maybe she has gotten some fuel for her exploration fire. Let her look into what one studies as a psych major, what careers people choose with that major, what additional study is necessary for those careers and how hard/expensive it is to get into those programs. Maybe she can even connect with some people in the field for their input.
If the teacher made her think about her choice (however garbled the message was when it got to you in the reporting ), that’s not a bad thing.
On the other hand he may be pointing out that she will have much competition as a female psych major…perhaps it would be well to consider something where you stand out.
Much like wanting to be an elementary school teacher…much competition but if you were to get a reading or special needs certification you would be more competitive.
Most psych majors do not become psychologists. That’s the first flaw in this argument.
And most HS kids do not understand the various careers that undergrad psych majors end up in, nor do they understand the years of training required to become a clinical psychologist, researcher, etc. Even school counseling, social work, family therapy requires graduate school even if the goal is not a doctorate degree.
And I’m voting with a phone call to the teacher to clarify exactly what was said. If indeed it’s what the student reported, I’d calmly explain to the teacher why his comments were completely out of line (and factually incorrect on many levels).
“Her teacher told her that because she is a woman she should reconsider her choice of majors, because he or she ( I don’t know if the teacher is a man or woman, but I think a man ) thinks that there are far too many women taking psychology, and very few men”
Take a teenager’s report of what a teacher told her with three truckloads of salt.
Find out what really happened. Maybe the report was accurate, but you do not know that right now.
As was mentioned already, there are lots of different positions in various fields that psychology (and other social science majors) can go into without a graduate degree. I myself work in UX research, and although I have a PhD most people in this field do not - most have BAs and a significant chunk have master’s degrees.
This is unfair. Teenagers are quite malleable and easily influenced by authority figures, and teachers loom large in their lives. High school students are supposed be taking the advice of their teachers and they’re trusting that what their teachers is telling them is true. They haven’t yet fully learned that not everyone knows what she’s talking about.
I also think it’s strange that people are doubting that the young woman’s interpretation of what her teacher said is inaccurate or misleading. Teachers and other adults make gendered assumptions every day. In fact, what he said is not that far off from what I’ve seen other people say right here on CC.
I wouldn’t be glad, if I were you. It’s inappropriate for a teacher (of any gender) to discourage a student from pursuing a particular major because of her gender.
Juillet, I too am concerned that people dismiss the young woman’s interpretation. There is a long and frightening history of dismissing what young women say about more powerful men.
Why would she make it up, especially if she was not upset by it and/or found it helpful?
I’ve been wondering: what if, rather than saying dont go into psych, too many women, he was saying this: many women go into psych when, by setting their sights a little higher, they could aim for med school and psychiatry?
I dunno. But that would change our reactions, wouldn’t it?
I would assume that the daughter recounted the conversation accurately unless there is a history known to her parents of her misinterpreting or inaccurately reporting discussions with others. I presume that the D was talking to the teacher because she valued his opinion and input on her future plans.
That said, it seems that neither the D or the parents are too upset about the D giving up a considered potential psych major. I wonder if telling the young lady that she should consider another career merely because she is female is any different than telling moms and young women on this forum to consider STEM careers because their femaleness would give them an advantage? Isn’t that the flip side of the coin? Pursue STEM because being female will give you an advantage, don’t do psych because being female could be a perceived disadvantage?
In the interest of disclosure, I have never taken a psych course but my H was a major. We both became attorneys. S17 originally planned to major in psych, but is now a theater tech major. The AP credit he got for Psych 101 is likely to be the extent of his psych studies in college.
Based on my experience of adolescents recounting conversations, it’s very rare that they report what the adult said and they often (even if smart and attuned to cues) misunderstand the adult’s reasoning.
I don’t think the report is dismissed because she’s female, but because she’s a 17-year old recounting a conversation; if the family were concerned they should ask the teacher what his (her?) reasoning was when they said they didn’t think Psychology was a good major for the daughter.
Psychology may actually be a good major and she should definitely take one class and see how she likes it, if she’s interested.