<p>"Quote:
And yes, you did change the story. It’s right there in your text. Sorry. </p>
<p>Your pesky reading comprehension problem is surfacing once again."</p>
<p>Reapeated from the post you are questioning my comprehension about…</p>
<p>"S loves the replacement & was telling us about Mr.B’s great experiences working in Manhattan piano bars. Son was amazed that Mr. B. started so young, age 16, that he needed a fake ID. "</p>
<p>HERE’S YOUR FIRST LINES from one post…</p>
<p>"And now a teacher announcing to a class of ten year olds that you can sneak into a bar with a fake ID is peachy keen in your eyes. "</p>
<p>HERE’S YOUR SECOND LINE ON THE SAME SUBJECT in another post…"</p>
<p>I comprehend two different themes here… one for work and one for fun… </p>
<p>You go from “work experiences” to “sneak”??? </p>
<p>I’m confused did he sneak in to work? How did they pay him if he was so sneaky? Wouldn’t they have missed him as he snuck by? Wouldn’t at some time during the evening ask themselves “who playing the bar piano?” :)</p>
<p>No, I think my reading comprehension is just fine.</p>
<p>I think you changed your own story to fit your arguement that’s all.(WMD’s) </p>
<p>Maybe I should proofread your stuff ahead of time and point out where the holes lie. That way when you post, everybody can share your outrage, and a person like myself wouldn’t be able to reasonably question your conclusions and throw you on the defensive. </p>
<p>Another fat pitch down the middle…smack it’s going for extra bases…</p>
<p>“That settles it, I guess. Why go to the trouble of producing a yearbook? Just have copies of The National Enquirer laminated & hand them out at graduation as a momento”</p>
<p>We have a record, not a yearbook. It is a factual listing of all the wins/losses–academic through cultural through sports–incl every team–even the ‘D’ teams. Studnets have no involvement. there is no student newspaper. THere is a literary magazine.</p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s possible for you to take a deep breath on this b and abandon this thread but you might consider it. You’ve come very close to publicly slandering this teacher in an identifiable town (it’s not hard to figure out where you live). Slander is not a great look–your opinion on the yearbook nonwithstanding.</p>
<p>What I was saying before is that it is a student publication and that it isn’t meant to represent the school as much as the student body. The students on the committee had the most say. More kids possibly could have served on the yearbook staff to balance out the various “interest groups”. The pregnancy and tattoos represented a significant memory for a particular contingent of kids. Other kids who care the most about things like a science fair, would hopefully also be represented. They are more likely to be in the candid shots if kids of that nature were also on the committee. The photo spread of kids on ATVs and dirt bikes in our yearbook (candid type shots, not a school club or anything) doesn’t represent my kids’ interests, but that’s OK. There is a segment of our school population that likes that kind of stuff. There’s a segment of our student body who are not going to college and have interests beyond the usual school ECs, academics, etc. So, they are represented in the yearbook. </p>
<p>I don’t think this is the same as a publication that faculty create. A yearbook is more of a memory of all the kids in the class. If there are kids in the class into young pregnancy and tattoos, well, they are part of the class. Hopefully, the yearbook has candid photo spreads of kids who are into other, more wholesome things. The kids put it together and pick and choose what to put in. The kids serving on the yearbook staff kinda run the show. Other kids maybe should get involved if they want other sorts of candid shots included. </p>
<p>I don’t see the yearbook as representing what the school stands for. If there was some recognition night that only emphasized non academics and glorified pregnancy and tattoos, that is one thing. But the school conducts events and publications that stand for the educational mission. The yearbook is different as it is a student memory collection of whatever the students opt to remember. There are all types of kids. The kids who are doing some less applaudable things want to be represented as well. I don’t think this is the same as a faculty sponsored event applauding these activities. I think it is a student run publication recording the images of each of the kids in the student body and whatever each of them represents. </p>
<p>The idea that if the yearbook has no academic recognition in it implies that the school doesn’t have academics as its first priority is not a conclusion that I would make. I already mentioned what is in our yearbook and there is no mention of academic endeavors or accomplishments either, yet I do believe our school cares about academics. That just isn’t what the yearbook is about. The yearbook is basically a photo collection of members of each class, each activity group, the faculty, and candid remembrances in photos and text that the kids decide to include. I don’t think the yearbook is a representation of a school’s mission, etc. I truly don’t care much what is in the yearbook and neither do my kids. I think they enjoy having a memory of their classmates, the photos, the individual pages where everyone wrote dedications, remembrances, etc. and then again, having everyone sign it with personal messages at the end of the year. That’s all I think the yearbook is. It is not an administrative publication meant to symbolize the school’s missions and priorities in education. I think student handbooks and other publications put out by the school do that. The school policy manuals reflect on what the school stands for. I don’t see the yearbook that way. </p>
<p>The yearbook should try to include as many sub groups in the class as possible but again, it might lean toward certain kids more than others, depending on which kids serve on the committee and work on it. My kids had little say as they were not on the yearbook staff. If they really cared about this, they’d have had to serve or give input to elected students.</p>
<p>I don’t really get this thread because the yearbook controversy was discussed last year when it occurred and basically it obviously seems to be upsetting to some in that community still today. It seems that now other aspects of the yearbook teacher are being brought up. This thread really isn’t about a teacher who is on very friendly terms with students but it appears to be about this whole yearbook issue and so forth. Again. </p>
<p>The reason this thread got stuck is because two posters wanted it to get stuck, and fixated on the issue of the saintly LTS and the yearbook-- in an incredibly nasty way–for this reason.</p>
<p>It is difficult to have a discussion about boundaries between teachers and students when a) one is not allowed to offer specific examples of behaviors of teachers one has experienced as offensive because b) there are absolutely no standards allowed which one can use as a yardstick for judging inappropriate behavior, and if one attempts to set such standards, one is repeatedly called names.</p>
<p>As to the slander, I believe it was kluge who brought the woman’s name into the open.</p>
<p>The teacher in question was the target of a lot of very public and highly publicized opprobrium instigated by Berurah and some other parents in her home town. There’s no secret about it - I found her name by simply googling “Kansas yearbook controversy” and it pops right up. They wrote letters to the newspapers, spoke out on radio and TV, circulated a petition, and basically did about everything they could to make her life miserable. It’s a minor cause celebre in journalism circles. Although the school board determined that the yearbook was in compliance with Kansas governing law, Berurah & Co. achieved <strong>SUCCESS</strong> - the teacher is apparently leaving that school at the end of this year.</p>
<p>After doing some basic online research I’m not going to shed a tear for the teacher - she’ll have no difficulty in landing a job elsewhere. She’s talented, highly qualified, and respected in her field. And the parents will get what they want - a compliant new yearbook teacher who won’t make waves, and will be careful to make sure to avoid inspiring the students to strive for the production of an award winning - or in any other way noteworthy - product. It will be just what the parents want. </p>
<p>It’s a win-win situation, as I see it. Oh – the kids? Well, no one ever said that any particular student had a right to an inspirational teacher. The ones who will miss her will move on, and the ones who never knew her won’t know the difference. It’s possible that the experience will have scarred the teacher to the point where she will lose her nerve, and shy away from anything which might subject her to the treatment she got this last year, but it’s also possible that she’ll find happiness somewhere other than Kansas and that the students at her next school may win some awards, and learn something about life and people in the process.</p>
I’m becoming a little frustrated because no one seems to be reading what I’m writing. For that reason, I do intend to “abandon” this thread soon. </p>
<p>Soozie, when you run a local paper in a city or town, what is covered should NOT be dependent upon who is writing the paper. In other words, it is the job of the journalist to seek out and report all IMPORTANT news, whether or not that news is generated by people you like and hang out with. Therefore, simply because the journalism staff is comprised of “edgy” people, that does not mean that edgy content should dominate a publication for over 2000 kids. At least if you’re trying to teach “real world” journalsim. In fact, our yearbook was an EXCELLENT example of tabloid journalism. It was designed that way. See, when 2199 kids DON’T get married right before Holly Ball, but ONE does, and yet, the entire section gets renamed “Wedding Bells” for posterity, then that is tabloid journalism–jumping on the “sensational” rather than representing 99++ percent of the students who’d like to remember their winter formal and not some girl’s wedding day.</p>
<p>It has been said many times by people on the “anything goes” side that this book belongs to the kids. No. This book is funded predominantly by tax funds, community sponsors, and parents. IF those funds are in jeopardy because the students have produced something that is offensive to their funding sources, then that funding will be withdrawn (many sponsors did withdraw their support this year because they did not want their names attached to something they perceived as “trashy” and not repesentative of our community). Many parents did not buy yearbooks this year either. This is a real life financial reality of what happens when you offend the sensibilities of a community while your funding and support are dependent on that very community–and perhaps THE most valuable lesson that was taken from this entire set of events. Simple economics. I’ve always been HUGE on privilege going ALONG WITH responsibility. In other words, IF the kids have the privilege of using someone else’s money to create their “memory book,” then they’d better be responsible enough not to offend those who have generously offered that money. Otherwise, they may find themselves in a financial fix. If, however, they would like to do bake sales and car washes in order to raise their own funds (and buy the hugely expensive equipment that has been gifted to them to work with), they are more than free to publish whatever they please.</p>
<p>By the way, since Kansas is one of six states that has protected school-published material under a special student publications act (going against the 1988 Supreme Court decision offered in Hazelwook v. Kuhlmeier which states that NO high school should be obligated to publish material that is at odds with its own educational mission), I am <em>very</em> proud to say that our case has resulted in a new bill being introduced that will more closely monitor the content of h.s. publications. Our case, which was eloquently presented in detail to the school administration, school board, and legislature (both orally and in a huge notebook with all kinds of statistics), demonstrated very effectively why this is important, so our victory will be more far reaching than just our district! :)</p>
<p>cheers~ hereshoping is right. I have slandered no one…I have offered a calmly prensented and extremely valid opinion. You know, like the one you offered repeatedly about marilee jones! If not for kluge, no names would have been made public. Nice try, though. That you don’t like the side of the issue I represent is no reason to accuse me of slander. CC would be chock FULL of slander then… <em>lol</em></p>
<p>Opie, what can I say? You are oh so mistaken. StickerShock has never changed her story in any way. She told her story in a calm fashion, and it as it got filtered through you, it became a histrionic battle cry that it never was. Ironically, you are guilty of the same histrionics you are attributing to us overwrought “little league” parents. <em>rofl</em> I think I can speak for SS when I say that she and I are a great deal calmer and more composed about this stuff than you and some of the others are. And for the record, I agree with her 100%.</p>
<p>BTW, graduation was AWESOME!!! My D and three of my adopteds graduated today!!! And I am ONE PROUD MOM!! :)</p>
<p>Have a nice evening, everyone! I sure will! :)</p>
<p>You should realize by now that free speech is free for EVERYONE…not just those with whom you AGREE. See, we were just being a good example to the kids. We were exercising our SAME IDENTICAL rights to free speech that the journalism teacher encouraged. She should be proud of our efforts on behalf of free speech. Or…is free speech only protected for those spouting offensive messages? </p>
<p>A point of clarification. NONE of us contacted the radio or television outlets. <em>I</em> wrote the original editorial that somehow took on a life of its own. I’ve had about 35 pieces published and only one other one generated even a tenth of this public response. Obviously, this issue touched a raw nerve in the community. After the editorial, we were contacted by all three local news outlets and several radio stations. I did not refuse to talk to them as the sponsor did. In fact, I wanted our message to reach as wide an audience as possible. Apparently she was advised by our administration not to talk. Why? If they were legally in the right, there should have been no trepidation about speaking with the media. Instead, she had the students alone respresent that side. Perhaps they’d have done a bit better with a responsible adult taking charge there…</p>
<p>
From what was reported locally, this teacher will remain in KS at a school in or near KC. I can tell you one thing…the more affluent and academic KC schools (the ones which actually DO seek to send kids to elite colleges) will tolerate that type of yearbook even less than our community. I hope she’s found a place where the parents don’t give a flip if she wants a repeat of her dubious “award.” </p>
<p>I spoke with some other moms today at my D’s graduation. We are all very delighted with the success of our efforts, and there is absolutely no reason for us not to be! :)</p>
<p>Berurah, I’m sure you are all delighted with the success of your efforts, and that you congratulate each other on a regular basis. I’m also sure that those who are appalled at what you’ve done won’t say a thing to you about it. That’s just human nature. But rest assured - those people are out there. :)</p>
<p>^^Oh, I know, kluge. I’m not delusional like some here. ;)</p>
<p>We do not, however, congratulate each other regularly, unless it’s about our kids’ accomplishments. We’re too busy volunteering in the schools and doing for our community! :)</p>
<p>Nevertheless, it was a fair battle with BOTH sides exercising the sacred “free speech.” It was really a simple economic decision. The housing market most likely suffered with all of the publicity, and those with the financial backing got their way. Another real life lesson to be taken from this set of events.</p>
<p>“I think I can speak for SS when I say that she and I are a great deal calmer and more composed about this stuff than you and some of the others are.”</p>
<p>Really? how can you tell? </p>
<p>"StickerShock has never changed her story in any way. "</p>
<p>neither did Bush. </p>
<p>It’s right there. Buddy up if you need to, but it doesn’t change it. Just makes it a sadder situation.</p>
<p>What was the nature of the two page spread about the pregnant girl? I asked my 20 year old about this and she said it depends on the nature of what was put in the yearbook. For instance, she thought it might be just fine if others were wishing her well, and things along that line. What was in that section exactly?</p>
<p>Anyway, it seems like you, Berurah, prevailed and this is old news at this point. I am not sure at this juncture, what the purpose is of THIS thread, since the yearbook incident was discussed here a lot at the time you pursued this case. Now, this thread starts with a quote by a student about the teacher. It comes across as if you are still pursuing bringing her down. You have prevailed on the yearbook issue. The teacher is also leaving. I am not sure the point of posting about comments a student made about missing this teacher who feels like a friend to her (which by the way, my 20 year old thought it was great to be very close and friendly with teachers). I am concerned at this point that it is coming across as vindictive. Your community felt strongly about this and you achieved your goal. I am not clear why the teacher still needs to be brought down, at least on a public forum. </p>
<p>Congratulations to your daughter on her graduation! Enjoy celebrating today and tonight on her special day. This situation with the teacher is just not worth a lot of angst on this special day, and as it is, you already prevailed and the teacher is going to be leaving your school. I mean this in a friendly way.</p>
<p>This thread has meandered all over the place, but I think the real question is what constitutes professional behavior on the part of teachers. I think that – like members of the clergy, medical or legal professions – teachers have a special role in society. They are held to a higher standard for appropriate behavior, because they can have so much influence on young people. HS kids are not adults – they are still learning about life in general, and can be easily influenced by a charismatic adult. With all the cases of “teacher sexual abuse” in the news, a teacher should be extra vigilant in ensuring that there is never even the appearance of impropriety. When a teacher and student have a close relationship, that can be difficult to maintain. I don’t think it’s appropriate for teachers to be too casual with students – first names, social activities etc. Like in Scout organizations, there should always be a couple of adults when in a non-classroom situation. If something makes you feel “squirmy” then it’s not right.</p>
<p>There were two instances of inappropriate behavior at my HS, that I know of. In one case, a married teacher divorced his wife, and later married a girl in my class. Maybe they didn’t date until after we graduated, but it certainly had the appearance of something else. Then there was an arts teacher, married with kids, who apparently was a pedophile. I didn’t find this out until many years later, but a lot of things made sense after I found out.</p>
<p>I tend to believe that everyone should have friends their own age (within reason) and power structure. I think the power inequities between teachers and students make it inherently difficult to have a buddy relationship.</p>
<p>sjmom,
There is a big difference between a close mentorship/friendship and sexual impropriety. My kids have felt close to certain teachers. It has been within the parameters of an appropriate relationship where the roles are defined but there is a friendship. The quote in the first post on this thread comes across as a close friendship and admiration for a mentor that the student will miss. This is not in the same realm as sexual impropriety, in my view.</p>
<p>Bethie,
I agree, there is a contentious nature in the interchange on this thread and it is unpleasant to read.</p>
<p>You have repeatedly criticized this thread, and I’m very sorry if it’s been offensive to you. I have rarely, if ever, found myself in a position to disagree with you, and yet I most assuredly do disagree with much of what you’ve said here.</p>
<p>I will give this ONE MORE GO, and then I will not post on this thread again.</p>
<p>IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY was the intention of this thread to rehash the yearbook issue. In the past, I have posted updates to the yearbook issue on the yearbook thread itself. </p>
<p>When the student newspaper came home (I’ve only seen one or two this year as my kids don’t generally read it or bring it home), I noticed an article by the editor of the newspaper that was a sort of “ode” lavishly praising the now-departing journalism instructor. The thing that caught my eye about the article was that there seemed to be more of a peer relationship between the two than an adult/student or mentor/student relationship. </p>
<p>Given the culture in the schools today, I am NOT in favor of students texting with teachers, facebooking with them, or becoming so close that the line between authority figure and student is in any way compromised. That is my opinion only.</p>
<p>I thought the nature of the relationship between the journalism sponsor and her students may possibly have clouded her judgment and rendered her an ineffective guidance person. That is why this was brought into it.</p>
<p>I am <em>not</em> being vindictive. What I AM trying to do is to perform a sort of “post mortem” on this very unfortunate set of events to see how this whole thing might have been avoided. The yearbook controversy took its toll on many people (myself and my kids included) and on our community as a whole. I would like to see this type of thing avoided in the future.</p>
<p>It is truly unkind and unfair to assume my motives are vindictive, but if that is your opinion, you are certainly welcome to it. There are some people here, apparently you included, that are unhappy that the issue was settled in the way that it was. On the other hand, there are many, many applauding our efforts. </p>
<p>I will now bow out of this thread, and I trust that you and anyone else who finds it objectionable will do the same.</p>
<p>In 7th-8th grade, I had a female teacher who was very important to me. She was a real mentor to me and a few other (kind of odd and marginal) students. Over the years we’ve been in touch. She’s now “retired” and is teaching in China. There was never a hint of anything “off” in this relationship. She was 23 and I was 13 when I first met her. She just recognized a special spark in me and I will always thank her for it. My son has had special teachers like this. I would do anything for them. He’s a bit off-beat, as I am. We don’t always get the standard awards or whatever. A special teacher is golden. I wondered if this teacher was a special person to some marginalized students. If so, I salute her!</p>
<p>If anyone is milder than soozie and me on CC it might be berurah. I don’t pretend to understand this issue fully and I’ll bet soozie feels the same way. I do not understand the animosity toward this teacher, but it doesn’t mean I think you, b, are full of unreasonable hatred. I just don’t get it. At the same time, I’m not asking you to give a blow-by-blow description of this whole event. I don’t need to hear it. Enjoy your graduation-- my son graduates this year too. We are joyful!</p>
<p>Just to clarify, I never said I was unhappy the issue was settled the way it was. I didn’t say one way or another. I was saying that you prevailed and advocated for what you believed was right. At this point, that is over. So, I am not sure if it worth picking apart the rest any longer. I didn’t realize when the thread started that it was about the larger context and I only thought it was about how friendly a teacher should be with students. I didn’t realize it was the yearbook controversy. I just am not sure the value of dwelling on this person because really you already prevailed. That’s all. I understand your viewpoints and that’s fine. It just seems benefical to let go. I understand that your efforts were applauded by many in your community. You did what you believed in. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with how the issue was settled. I just didn’t realize this was still going on, I guess. I don’t see the purpose in bringing this teacher back up over the comments made in the newspaper by one of her students, which didn’t come across as all that bad. You know more than I do about it. I just am not sure the value in dwelling on what else is wrong with the teacher on a public forum, but that’s me. In any case, I was sharing my view respectfully. I wasn’t commenting on how the case was settled. I know you felt strongly about this issue and had many supporters. I don’t have a strong feeling one way or the other on it honestly. I thought the yearbook controversy had been settled and as you say, took its toll on many involved. I don’t quite see the value in discussing what else is wrong with this teacher publicly, but you are welcome to do so. </p>
<p>When a person starts a thread, that comes with the knowledge that many views may be shared. It goes with the territory as the thread is asking a question regarding a dilemma you have shared. I don’t think this is worth fighting about amongst members. I think sharing viewpoints can be done respectfully, even if they are not in total agreement. In my case, I am not “unhappy with how the issue was settled.” I did not see the yearbook. I did comment on the fact that our yearbook doesn’t have academic recognition along with other thoughts about yearbooks in general. They were generic thoughts, as I can’t really comment on YOUR yearbook as I haven’t seen it. I originally commented on the original topic of this thread, about friendly mentorships with teachers with students. That doesn’t seem to be the topic any longer and it seems to be about the yearbook and I commented about yearbooks generally speaking. </p>
<p>I know today is a very special day in your family and there is much to celebrate. I realize there has been a teacher and this incident which has bothered you a lot but I think you did prevail and so it is time to let it go and rejoice in the positive at this point. That was simply meant as a friendly suggestion.</p>
<p>Bethie, we cross posted but I feel as you do. I don’t really know this whole yearbook controversy. Berurah has her reasons to be upset with the teacher. Believe me, there have been a few teachers here I have been upset with too. Berurah stood up for something she believed in and that’s good. I don’t really know enough about it all and it really doesn’t matter if I would have agreed or done the same in that situation. I don’t much care about the yearbook frankly. But it is OK that others do. I don’t totally get it but that’s fine as well.</p>
<p>As far as friendships, my kids have a few very special ones with teachers and mentors that have continued on into college. These are on the up and up and we feel a kinship to these folks as well.</p>
<p>berurah, I am sorry that you are upset with the thread. You chose to share about something or someone you feel strongly about and then others chimed in. You chose to do so on a forum and so you got a range of opinions. None of us live in your community or are close to the situation. This issue here is not worth getting so upset over, particularly on your D’s special special day. Go celebrate and relish this wonderful moment. Try to remember, as well, that you did prevail and had supporters in your community and so things have worked out as you wanted. Time for new beginnings.</p>
and a person like myself wouldn’t be able to reasonably question your conclusions and throw you on the defensive. </p>
</p>
If not for kluge, no names would have been made public. Nice try, though. That you don’t like the side of the issue I represent is no reason to accuse me of slander. CC would be chock FULL of slander then… <em>lol</em></p>