High school teachers: authority figures and mentors--or BFF and "Mom"?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hey y’all~</p>

<p>Over the past year or two, I have become increasingly intrigued by the question of what it is exactly that a h.s. teacher should be to his/her students. This curiosity was prompted, in part, by my observation that there seems to be a MUCH, MUCH more casual relationship between many teachers and students these days. Then, just yesterday, my girls’ last h.s. paper for the year was distributed. Normally, they don’t think much of the school paper, and I’ve rarely seen one come home, but in this particular edition, my senior D had been voted “Most Likely to Win an Academy Award” and had her picture in it, so she brought it for me to see.</p>

<p>As I was perusing the articles, I came across one by the editor of the paper. Now, many of you know about our yearbook fiasco, and this editor (and the sponsor) were the same ones that put out that yearbook. The article was essentially an ode to this journalism sponsor, a young woman who is apparently <strong>LEAVING</strong> this year (I had NO idea…can you say <strong>SUCCESS</strong>??). I don’t know the details of how/why she’s leaving (whether her provisional contract was not renewed or whether she simply didn’t want to work with our community on appropriate standards for school publications). At any rate, when I read this girl’s article, I was struck by the informality of her relationship with her teacher, the sponsor. Here is one section of the article:</p>

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<p>The editor also mentioned that at least she can still text the teacher and “poke” her on Facebook.</p>

<p>Now, call me old fashioned (and I won’t counter you :wink: ), but I find this type of relationship between h.s. teacher and student to be a bit too intimate for my tastes. I think it was this very “friendship” quality that led the sponsor to make exceedingly poor judgment calls (or virtually NO judgment calls) about the yearbook, resulting in a very unfortunate public brouhaha. </p>

<p>To my way of thinking, a teacher should have a more professional relationship with her students. I believe that you CAN teach, mentor, inspire, and encourage WITHOUT dropping to the level of BFF. But, I have noticed in recent years, that some teachers have taken this more casual and “friendly” position with their students. </p>

<p>I am wondering what you CCers think of this trend toward more casual teacher/student interaction and relationships? I’m interested in everyone’s opinions, but I’d also love to hear from some current teachers!</p>

<p>Thanks, ~berurah</p>

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<p>Well, it is a very fine line. I think a teacher can maintain authority, while still being a mentor and a friend. I don’t think that quote is odd at all. I think there are some teachers and educators my kids have worked with who they think of as an “older” friend. I also think if the teacher is young and relates well to students, that teacher can be a supportive person in the young person’s life and be on very friendly terms, while still being the authority in the classroom. Further, since this person was like a coach or EC leader, a team or club can be very close to that person and feel like that person is also a “friend.”</p>

<p>I’m a parent, but also a former teacher K-6 and also a former college teacher, as well.</p>

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I agree with this, soozie. I’m just trying to figure out where <em>I</em> want that line drawn <em>lol</em>. I think constantly texting and “facebooking” teachers goes over that line TO ME. But that’s why I’m interested in the opinions of others. I tend to prefer a more professional relationship based on respect, not “friendship.”</p>

<p>~b.</p>

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<p>I think that this very young teacher didn’t handle the situation optimally.</p>

<p>She may have thought that relationships between young high school teachers and their students should have the almost-egalitarian informality of the relationship between college students and their graduate student TAs. But high school kids are too young for that.</p>

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<p>Berurah,</p>

<p>Congratulations to your daughter on her award!</p>

<p>I can’t wait to see her in the movies!!!</p>

<p>Now as far as that teacher goes (and others like her), maybe she is working harder on being popular than on being a teacher. She needs to grow up!</p>

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<p>I think it’s possible to cross a line, but it is hard to tell from that quote if the teacher did. We see what the student perceives, but not whether it was encouraged by unprofessional closeness, or thoughtful mentoring (as Soozie says).</p>

<p>Full disclosure: I was very close friends with my senior year English teacher, and frequently visited her home after graduating, as did some of my other friends. She was a true friend, and mentor, and, eventually, my truly beloved mother-in-law!</p>

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Agreed. I’ve seen this with people stepping into their first management jobs, a well. It’s not the job of a teacher to get students to like you. It’s your job to teach them & earn their respect. </p>

<p>Berurah, I’m with you. Good riddance to this one! On a related note, the teacher & choreographer hired to run the spring musical at D’s h.s. (luckily they don’t teach at the school) were fired and turned into DYFS because of inappropriate chumminess with at least one student that also involved alcohol. Judgment can quickly become clouded when proper boundaries are not observed. As our school president told the girls in the follow-up to the incident, it is NEVER appropriate for a h.s. age child to have a peer relationship with an adult. Warning bells should sound in your head if that is happening.</p>

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<p>Garland: That relationship with your English teacher was student/mentor. I doubt it was a peer friendship until you had achieved adulthood & it was appropriate for it to develop as such.</p>

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<p>I think my kids would actually be somewhat uncomfortable with the ‘teacher as friend’ scenario, since the older ones are pretty reserved and quiet (the 9-year-old is a different story!). I think the student-teacher relationship with traditional boundaries probably suits them better (same went for me). That’s not to say they don’t have favorite teachers who mean a lot to them. I know S. definitely plans to stop by and visit next year when he’s home on break.</p>

<p>Soozie’s point about coaches and EC leaders is a good one. I think of our school’s drama club as an example. The kids are generally creative and outgoing, and working closely with a teacher or instructor who is encouraging and nurturing (ugh-- such new-age lingo!). They seem to have a great relaitonship, though don’t think it extends outside of school.</p>

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<p>D has a teacher who has a Myspace page. It is a “band” page and not a personal page, but that is really a front. The band is no longer in existance (despite the fact he still talks about it all the time with the kids) and for all intent and purpose it is a personal Myspace page. He occasionally leaves students messages, and they leave him messages.</p>

<p>I was shocked the first time he messaged, and realized he had his page. The messages are all very public, and nothing has been inappropriate. But I think that he is trying to be a friendly mentor-friend, and I am not crazy about it. Even a facebook page seems a bit more professional.</p>

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<p>How do you solve this? attend conference night and get to personally KNOW your kids teachers. It is easy to sit and wonder “why” a student feels the way they do about a teacher. It is also easy to think the wrong thing, which is human nature when were aren’t sure. </p>

<p>My kids HS years conference nights attract about 25% of the parents of the total enrollment. Actually this does lead to quality time almost 1v1 with teachers. Ya get to know them and they get to know you. Alot gets resolved there. </p>

<p>Some comments have been made about the teacher’s ability already, why? because nobody knows her. She might be a great teacher. </p>

<p>Yes, I know I’ll get the teacher lover thing, but really until you meet and know someone, all you’re doing is guessing. How is that false?</p>

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<p>SS–not a definite line of demarcation, actually. Did I “achieve adulthood” by virtue of graduating? Seems arbitrary.</p>

<p>As far as the given scenario, it’s quite possible that the relationship was too chummy and unprofessional. I just don’t believe we can tell that from the quote itself. Can you tell it was a “peer relationship” and not student/mentor? I can’t.</p>

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<p>I attended an alternative high school in the mid 70s for a couple years. While I didn’t enjoy the sort of close relationship that the girl you quoted apparently did, it was an * alternative high school and it was the 70’s* ;)</p>

<p>What that means is- it was a very small school, where we had contracts with teachers, not structured classes, we met with teachers regularly, went on field trips in a time when that was much more unusual in a high school setting than it is now, called them by their first name and even stayed overnight at their homes.</p>

<p>However- from what I remember- they were always very appropriate. It was more of a big brother/sister or uncle/aunt relationship. Not a peer, not a parent.</p>

<p>The time when I stayed overnight at a teachers house- it was very interesting. She lived way out in the country- with no electricity on a lake.
( the school was very small- she wasn’t one of the permanent full time teachers- she might have even been a student teacher- she was about 24)</p>

<p>It was actually a very instructional time. While I imagine some parents at other schools may have been horrified- regarding the subject matter, looking back, I think what she did was very caring and she did it in a way that we could learn from it.</p>

<p>What I remember was, a few regulars, myself and maybe 5 other girls( we were all 16-17) went to her house for the weekend. While we were there, we helped her work in her extensive garden, and she talked to us about nutrition, use of herbs for cooking and health care and gardening.</p>

<p>She also led discussions ( which I suspect was the original objective), on sexual health- ie contraception, sexual health care inc protection from disease, but also on womens rights & emotional health, and encouraged us to speak up, to not stay in negative relationships and to find our own * power*. ( we were all sexually active- but at the same time- I think we didn’t have guidance from our parents- you only could enter the alternative school if you had problems in your neighborhood school- I had been suspended for three days from the traditional school- because I was in the “smoking” bathroom during a raid, I wasn’t even smoking- but it was the closest one to my class- I didn’t want to return after my suspension ended)</p>

<p>The entire time was very positive, and something that made a difference in how I thought of myself. Looking back, I think that if that teacher or people like her, had been more involved in my life/ for a longer period of time, it could have made a huge difference to me, and I possibly wouldn’t gotten involved in some very painful situations.</p>

<p>Still I think it was totally within a mentor relationship.</p>

<p>I think for a peer relationship to exist, a teacher has to share information about themselves that wouldn’t be appropriate. While I and many of my schoolmates felt very comfortable with our teachers, we only knew a few things about their lives outside of school that they shared with us perhaps in the guise of " teaching moment", or that we had learned from attending a one room school house with three teachers for a year or two.</p>

<p>I can’t really tell from the quote if the yearbook teacher was inappropriate in that relationship- I know that there was problems in general with inappropriate boundaries at that school ( or lack of them), but it is also possible that the senior girl is just one of those types who is given to “touchy- feely” language.</p>

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<p>

Having a cute little pet name (Chicken!?!) tells me it has definitely crossed the line. Plus, Berurah has talked about this teacher’s inability to discern what is and is not appropriate for h.s. kids in the past. I’m not suggesting that at graduation a magic wand is waved and instant maturity & wisdom are infused. But maturity usually blossoms very quickly after h.s., and that is when mentor relationships can evolve into friendships. Not before.</p>

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<p>I agree that it’s a fine line to keep a balanced relationship between teachers and students. There will always be some teachers AND some students who cross that line. However, I do think that teachers and their students can have close relationships where each respects the other, without it being an issue of the teacher not being ‘professional’. I also don’t think that a close relationship/friendship necessarily means that either participant is going to have bad judgment in making decisions.</p>

<p>At one of the high schools that my Ds attended, there were several teachers who had these close relationships with some of their students. Perhaps because of the nature of the school, it’s an arts school, and the fact that kids, and teachers, are routinely at school late into the evening with rehearsals, they got to know each other very well, spending a lot of time together, and it was easier to form closer relationships than if it were strictly a classroom setting. Certainly my Ds had close relationships with a few of these teachers, and my D who just graduated from NYU still is in touch with two of the teachers she had in h/s, visiting when at home and communicating by email occasionally through the year. This doesn’t seem to have been unusual at this school. I can think of many occasions over the years when the teachers have involved their families in school events, too. One favorite math teacher has a partner who is a designer and he regularly ropes him into doing the costumes for the school’s shows. Over the past few years, these two have adopted two babies and their students have held showers for them. I don’t see anything wrong with this, in fact, I think it’s been beneficial to all parties involved.</p>

<p>I can only think of one instance through the years when I had a funny feeling about a teacher, and it was close to 15 years ago now. It was a young female teacher who was teaching seventh grade and she seemed to have a very close relationship with several of the boys in the class. I don’t think anything ever happened but I do remember many of us who regularly volunteered in the school feeling something wasn’t quite right, so we did communicate our concern to the principal.</p>

<p>Garland, love the story about your MIL. :slight_smile: I, too, had a favorite teacher in h/s whom I was very close to, as were many others in our class. She was not only a mentor, but also a friend, way back in the 60’s when this certainly was not the norm! I learned a lot from her and still have fond memories of those classes.</p>

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<p>

Well, garland, I certainly don’t expect you to take <em>my</em> word for it. ;)</p>

<p>I can tell you that in MY estimation, this teacher crossed the line in SPADES, numerous times. She was extremely unprofessional in other aspects as well. For example, when the entire yearbook controversy was erupting, she made some very inappropriate comments IN CLASS in FRONT of friends/acquaintances of MY daughters about those who opposed her journalism philosophy. She had a captive audience, and she was able to “brainwash” a group of kids who were really too young and immature to appreciate the true concerns held by not only the parents, but the entire community of our small town. </p>

<p>I think the influence of some of the sponsors of various activities is VASTLY underestimated. These kids become VERY attached to their sponsors, especially if they are relatively young. Because of that, they are in a unique position to unduly influence our kids. This is why I’m concerned about the propriety of these relationships.</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

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<p>

SS~</p>

<p>Here is another exact quote from the article in yesterday’s newspaper:

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<p>~b.</p>

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<p>Berurah, Whoops, sorry! I thought I made it clear that I was talking about the quote itself, not your personal experience about the relationship. I had understood you were presenting the quote, and asking for opinions.</p>

<p>SS–the nickname is odd, but again, just going by the quote, we don’t know context, and teacher’s point of view. (For all we know, she may have discouraged its use.)</p>

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<p>^^NP, garland! And yes, I’m definitely interested in all the different opinions! :)</p>

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<p>“yearbook controversy was erupting”</p>

<p>What exactly was the yearbook controversy?</p>

<p>I know there have been some issues across the country with yearbooks and school newspapers the last few years. Most involve 1st amendment issues. </p>

<p>Not to start a war here, but you mention concerns of the parents and community… was she doing something wrong or something you disagree with? There’s a difference. We might disagree on which flavor of ice cream is best, however it would be wrong if you were attempting to eat it with your ear. Was she truly wrong or just of a different opinion? </p>

<p>Could you elaborate a bit?</p>