<p>I can’t say that I’ve seen this type of “friendship” develop between either of my sons with teachers, coaches, youth group advisors, etc. My boys are quite fond of some of these adults and have formed friendly relationships with several, but I would not have been happy to find out that they were communication through texting and Facebook. </p>
<p>I’m very involved with a youth group and have gone through some very thorough youth protection classes, and this type of friendship with a teenager would be considered out of line and in certain situations a “red flag”. I’m in no way suggesting that there was anything inappropriate going on, but I’m more surprised that a teacher would allow that type of communication to occur. Also, Facebook is known to be a medium where students, at times, volunteer more information than appropriate. Being a teacher, I would think she would be uncomfortable being privy to that sort of information as well.</p>
<p>I suppose I can join berurah, and you call me old fashioned too (but I’m really not ;))</p>
<p>Im speaking in a more general fashion- re my experience rather than Berurahs horror story of a high school.
I have noticed that science teachers have a more casual relationship than other teachers. Possibly because there are more field trips involved, and more lab work instruction, rather than just standing up in front of the class lecturing.</p>
<p>Especially my younger D is really enjoying her science classes. She often talks about her teachers, much more as a junior than she did as a freshman.</p>
<p>The science teachers are also more informal than other teachers. While this school calls most teachers Mr or Ms, the science dept will often go by Ms.first name, or even by a shortened last name without the Mr in front.
But I am applauding this. For my D, the more comfortable she is with her teachers & their classes ( as long as appropriate) , the better she does in school. I do admonish her sometimes as I notice that she and her friends like to badger the teachers more than I think is appropriate ( like challenging them to athletic competitions), I know that late high school is an challenging dynamic.
Often we have teachers who motivate their kids to do things like when a coach/teacher, ( who was native American and has a little ponytail) said that if the soccer team went to state, then they could cut it off ( which they did- both) Thats appropriate & I think it is appropriate for teachers to talk to kids at the end of their junior year about what they are going to do after high school.
But while a shortened last name that adults and kids call them sounds like a nickname, it isn’t a name that no one else uses- a pet name, does sound a little too- “precious”, for a mentor relationship.</p>
Well, opie, though others may disagree with me (and the 500+ other parents and community members who signed our petition)–and the journalism instructor DID disagree–I felt it <em>was</em> wrong to omit EVERY, SINGLE, SOLITARY academic award from our school’s yearbook (not ONE was included) and to instead, place sections on pregnant teens and cheating as a “study skill” in the ACADEMIC section of the book. </p>
<p>Berurah doesn’t mention it here, but her kids’ h.s. also turns a blind eye to anti-Semitic insults. It sounds as if many of the teachers & administrators either have poor judgment, are cowardly, or are asleep at the wheel. And Opie, I know you can’t abide a negative comment ever being associated with a teacher, so just pretend you didn’t read that last sentence.</p>
<p>I’ve had close relationships with a number of students over the years. I would say that they consider me in the authority figure/mentor role, though. I still have occasional correspondence with former students who are now in their late twenties; I sign my notes with my first name, and they write back, “Dear Mrs. V.”</p>
<p>I did just get a flurry of meaningful thank-you notes (teacher appreciation week) from some of this year’s seniors, all good friends of my daughter’s. Several of them mentioned my help in their college search, and a couple of them said they thought of me as a second mom and they like my cooking (that meant a lot to me!). I taught most of them as 10th and 11th graders, and really the close friendship they and my daughter share just started last summer. I’m glad to see them all around school but actually think it’s better that I don’t have them as students now that they are hanging around the house a lot in a social context. There are a couple of couples in the group, and I give them a gentle “ahem” for PDA both at my house and at school if needed. I guess that’s my point–I still enforce the rules and don’t give special breaks or privileges for certain students. And I’m a middle-aged woman, not a twenty-something-year-old, and I think that makes a difference, too. The situation Berurah describes sounds questionable to me–the teacher would be wise to avoid putting herself in situations in which her judgment might be questioned.</p>
<p>You sound like a simply WONDERFUL teacher…<em>and</em> mom! IMHO, your mentoring relationships with your students don’t cross <em>any</em> lines of propriety. I would have been very thankful if any of my kids had run across a teacher as supportive and caring as you are. It appears that you manage to offer the support and encouragement that some students <em>really</em> need without compromising your position as teacher/mentor/authority figure.</p>
<p>“And Opie, I know you can’t abide a negative comment ever being associated with a teacher, so just pretend you didn’t read that last sentence.”</p>
<p>HEY SS, after learning the detail, I agree with B. how about that?</p>
<p>It is a disagreement though, not necessarily wrong, even If I believe it to be wrong as well. </p>
<p>The principal should have stepped in and made changes, even if it meant including both things we want, and things we disagree with. </p>
<p>Probably why she’s not being renewed or coming back. The principal couldn’t stop one issue, but wasn’t going to have the hassle again. </p>
<p>Again, I think that was wrong, but does it really make her a bad teacher or one we don’t like? She just had a different opinion of what was important. I don’t agree with her and I would have included both things as both are part of the HS experience. </p>
<p>I’ve run across some great teachers for my kids that I couldn’t stand for their beliefs and methods or personality. However, they worked with my kids. As long as a certain line wasn’t crossed, I could dislike them but still recognize they could teach or reach kids. Do you understand?</p>
Many of us didn’t want our kids (or the other kids of our community) being taught that you will get more recognition for marrying during h.s., having an baby without the benefit of marriage during h.s., or cheating from “nerdy” kids to get A’s. Because she supported those things (and DIDN’T support equally the positive, school sponsored activities), I personally DON’T feel she was qualified to teach at our school. Nevertheless, NONE of us called for either her resignation or her firing. We were more than willing to work toward compromise, something which she was unwilling to do.</p>
<p>berurah- maybe you would like to move to Seattle:)</p>
<p>Our new school superintendent- reportedly made much of her out of wedlock pregnancy a couple years ago( she did get married recently), who said about a teacher who was so harrassed by her students that the district said they couldn’t protect her & forced her to leave her job ( the case eventually found its way to federal court who sided with the teacher), that it was too bad ( the teacher) made it about race ( the students who were threatening the teacher were black, the teacher was white), and told parents who wanted more options in the district," that they did, they could go to private schools or move"</p>
<p>She hasn’t even started yet- but I am irritated that she is going to be better paid than our governor, by almost $100K.</p>
A yearbook is a celebration. Teen pregnancy & cheating strategies should not be celebrated. I don’t care if they are part of the h.s. experience. For many, getting drunk & vomiting on your shoes is a part of the h.s. experience. How 'bout a nice color spread on that in the yearbook? Or capturing a kid having his head dunked in a toilet bowl? Or photos of kids using a bong. </p>
<p>
You take such an insulting tone when teachers are discussed. Clearly Berurah’s post is about CROSSING A LINE. How patronizing of you to imply parents will only accept teachers they personally like teaching their kids!</p>
<p>I think having a few very young teachers serves a valuable function, even if a few line-drawing problems result. At my son’s school, because of the union contract (which was recently changed somewhat), the vast majority of the teachers are over 50. In the past three years, I think my son has only had three teachers – one a year – younger than 55, and only one of them was in his 20s. While his most important relationships have been with teachers in their 60s, he has certainly wished that he had a few more young teachers, and he was thrilled to have a 20-something (MySpace page and all) for one class last year.</p>
<p>My kids have had all kinds of relationships with teachers, coaches, and other adults over the years. Good, bad, close, distant, fond, antagonistic - you name it. I figure it’s all a learning experience. In our own home, my wife is very chummy with all the teenagers - they text her funny messages, she barges into the conversation our daughter is having with her friends, etc. I’m a lot more reserved, and have a much more “Me adult - you adolescent” type relationship with all of them. You know what? It’s all good. I honestly don’t think there’s a “one size fits all” answer to the “correct” way an adult - including teachers - should act towards the young people around them.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t have had that type of relationship with this student (and never had that type of relationship with a teacher) but I don’t see it as “crossing a line.” A lot of teachers who are very inspirational to some students seem to be “over the top” if you’re outside that relationship. At my daughter’s school there is a teacher who is also a pastor and has a chummy relationship with a group of girls who are members of his church, with the result that my daughter, who isn’t, feels excluded and less well treated. I’m sure the girls from the church feel differently. It’s no big deal.</p>
<p>Candor here: I know Berurah has issues with this teacher, and I would therefore expect her to look for fault to find with her. Maybe it’s there, maybe it isn’t. All we’ve got are the snippets Berurah has chosen to share. I don’t mean to single Berurah out here, but an increasing number of CC posts and threads are reminding me of the pi$$y back-fence gossip wars I had to deal with for years when I was involved in running a Little League. People would blow things way out of proportion, wringing their hands and moaning about how it was all for the children, (hence implying that a failure to get on their bandwagon 100% was a failure to care for the children) when in fact in my opinion 90% of the time “it” was just a way to get back at somebody they didn’t like, or an opportunity to demonstrate to the world their own marvelous moral superiority without actually having to do anything except criticize someone else. Pfeh!</p>
<p>There are serious reasons to be concerned. And don’t for a second think your kids tell you the half of it as to how teachers today get away with behaving. It’s a different world from when we went to school.</p>
<p>I’ve heard you use this Little League analogy before, kluge. Little League bears no resemblance at all to the world of public schools today. True, only 25% of parents get involved or care, and the 25% who do can be a pain. But the 75% who don’t care is the bigger problem, because there is no oversight from the outside, and administrators and teachers know it. It’s a very insular little world. The bottom line is, parent involvement or none, the teachers are responsible for their own behavior. The extent to which some seem to be willing to go to excuse “poor judgment” is amazing to me. And people who raise these issues, like beurah, should be applauded.</p>
<p>In fact, this issue is a very very big deal, imo. It’s definitely not “all good.”</p>
<p>Am dealing with a teacher, in her 20’s, who acts like she is one of the kids. Kid energy fine. New ideas fine. Gossiping with high school students about junior high kids – not fine. Getting caught up in middle school dramas, taking sides, etc. – not fine. Acting like a kid instead of an adult when supposed to be in an adult role – not fine. </p>
<p>"You take such an insulting tone when teachers are discussed. Clearly Berurah’s post is about CROSSING A LINE. How patronizing of you to imply parents will only accept teachers they personally like teaching their kids! "</p>
<p>“As far as I’m concerned, Little League is the model of everything in the world today”</p>
<p>Interesting, I ran a youth soccer program with 2,000 kids and for a while the county with 15,000 kids. I feel your pain. Many of the same things happened it sounds like. </p>
<p>In order for a large group to function, you sometimes have to tolerate things you personally wouldn’t, but have to understand , it’s another pov and not illegal.</p>
<p>B, I am sorry someone promotes life choices that BOTH you and I disagree with. Personally with kids, I’ve always found the more upset a life choice makes an adult, the more they tend to gravitate towards it. You know it’s like smoking tobacco or pot, both are totally contemptable behavors to me. I can preach all I want about the evils, every body else does. Instead, I take a different approach of “they cut your wind” and every soccer player knows, fitness matters. So… I can disapprove but for a reasonable reason a kid could understand. </p>
<p>As far as marrying in hs or out of it. I would simply counter with but think of what’d you’d miss? And talk about that. </p>
<p>“But the 75% who don’t care is the bigger problem, because there is no oversight from the outside”</p>
<p>But who is responsible for that? As I said before more details became available GO to your parent teacher conferences ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
You can’t blame teachers and administrators for parents deciding NOT to attend meetings. </p>
<p>Historically, at least up here what I found about the biggest school district complainers is they DIDN’T attend conferences. They had all sorts of issues, but wouldn’t address them with their kids teachers. You can either solve the drama or live it.</p>
Pfeh? <em>ROFL</em> Must be a west coast thang… :rolleyes:</p>
<p>kluge, for someone who “didn’t mean to single Berurah out here,” you certainly did an excellent job of it! </p>
<p>What you failed to do, though, was to be candid enough to admit that you’ve been pushing the same uber-lib agenda on many threads now, namely that “it’s all good,” whether that means three innocent (albeit white and affluent) boys are persecuted for over a year, changing their lives forever, whether <em>cough</em> MORE great, competent teachers choose to pull a “harmless” prank on SIXTH GRADERS and make them think they’re under seige from a gunman, whether a very inapppropiate teacher and journalism instructor at our high school stands defiantly in favor of pregnant girls and cheaters deserving two-page spreads in a yearbook while academic kids receive NO coverage at ALL and the school sponsored activity photos are relegated to 2"x3" photos at the back of the book IN THE INDEX SECTION.</p>
<p>I am, kluge, quite relieved and deligted that you disagree with me and paint me as having a “for the children” agenda. I do. YOU don’t…in fact, you’ve made it abundantly clear on several threads that teachers et all can do whatever they damn well please and it’s all good to you. </p>
<p>Fact is, kluge, NOTHING is a big deal to you. Absolutely nothing. I find your lack of response to various outrageous things extremely disconcerting. You try to paint everyone else as the “out of place” and histrionic ones, but we’re not. In fact, it is YOU whose views are inappropriate and extremely questionable. More power to ya. And more power to me, kluge, 'cause the fact remains that in this particular case <em>I</em> and the people I was working with WON. The journalism teacher is outta here. ;)</p>
<p>I do thank you though, kluge, for being objective and not singling me out! ;)</p>
Opie, I think you’re missing the bigger point here. This isn’t about someone promoting choices that you <em>or</em> I disagree with. It’s about a SCHOOL DISTRICT EMPLOYEE, a teacher who REPRESENTS the school district of our town (and whom I and many others pay with our tax dollars) promoting themes and ideas THAT ARE AT ODDS WITH THE STATED EDUCATIONAL MISSIONS OF THE DISTRICT.</p>
<p>In other words, it would be the equivalent of the IRS publishing brochures on the most effective way to evade paying taxes. There may be a some who would choose to publish that information, but it probably should not be the IRS who does that.</p>
<p>I think the parents and the community have spoken. Our bedroom community markets itself as being an educational mecca <em>cough</em>. I know that WE fell for the line fifteen years ago when we bought here. IF that is false marketing, people deserve to know. We just wanted to make sure there was truth in advertising… ;)</p>
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