<p>What a phenomenal young man, I wish I had been in the audience to support him. Fantastic, absolutely fantastic.</p>
<p>The original intent of separation of church and state was that there wouldn’t be a state religion. That is, people would have freedom of choice of religion. </p>
<p>The literature of that time period, by the founding fathers and other American intellectuals, was steeped in religious references. It seems clear that the founding fathers that did not intend religion to be banished from public institutions such as schools and federal buildings.</p>
<p>As one of about 5 atheists in my South Carolinian school of 1700, our class president gave a benediction (a prayer) that included a bible verse and finished with something to the effect of “trust in God’s plan and have faith.” with everyone bowing their heads, it ended with ‘Amen.’</p>
<p>Two of the three other speeches mentioned God, including our principal mentioning the strength of our Lord. </p>
<p><em>sigh</em></p>
<p>I live on the edge of the SF bay area and we have a city Christmas Tree lighting event every year. There is also a Menorah next to it, that get’s lit (ha ha) at the appropriate time, and get’s a bit larger each year too. The tree is like three stories tall. The local Air Force base allows exhibits of various faiths, but it’s becoming sort of a big deal.</p>
<p>“Cromette- I find your comments polite, thoughtful, considerate and logical. You can be my neighbor anytime! Live and let live!”</p>
<p>Likewise! :)</p>
<p>Yea, can’t we all just get along? LOL</p>
<p>“Yea, can’t we all just get along?”</p>
<p>You know, that famous Rodney King quote is pretty insightful.</p>
<p>
He did.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,</p>
<p>I am not from South Carolina. And I believe I said that I do NOT believe the school or the state should sponsor prayer or any religion. I also don’t believe in tearing down monuments that have been there for 50+ years that have meaning to a community, just because someone moves in or wakes up one day and decides their offensive…which happens. Any more than I would object to a high school choir singing Handel’s Messiah…It’s culture, it’s part of history, no need to deny it or tradition. The whole PC thing is just silly to me.</p>
<p>And it really doesn’t matter how much anyone insults me, my beliefs, the area where I’ve lived my whole life (not South Carolina, although that’s lovely) my beliefs are not about to change. I pretty much like everyone, and think of everyone as one of God’s precious creations, each one with the right to be, and to express him/herself whether I agree with their views or not.</p>
<p>I think this young man’s prayer is okay, not because the audience approves, but because the Bill of Rights says it’s okay.</p>
<p>I also think the cheerleaders can paint Bible verses on their signs because the Bill of Rights says it’s okay. I’m glad they do. I’m happy they do. I share their faith. Personally, I don’t think God cares a whole lot about the outcome of a football game, but I do like that the girls find strength and confidence in scripture. And I appreciate it a lot more than some other things that some kids (or grown-ups for that matter) tend to focus on.</p>
<p>So you can insult me, the Bible Belt, scripture writing cheerleaders, a praying valedictorian or whatever other person isn’t afraid to express him/herself out loud spiritually - it’s cool…but it doesn’t really profit anyone anything for you to do so. And it doesn’t convince me that you are somehow better, more intelligent, or that I am wrong, stupid, arrogant or any of those other words that have been used here.</p>
<p>^^^^^ applause ^^^^</p>
<p>I like the way you think cromette!!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And this caused you to fear for your life or your safety? Caused you great psychic pain?
Clearly you should never be exposed to thoughts or beliefs you don’t share so it’s fortunate that you will soon be heading off to college where that won’t be a problem anymore ;)</p>
<p>I was simply saying that I wish these ceremonies remain secular. </p>
<p>I feel that at a graduation ceremony, the repeated inclusion and emphasis on Christian (or any one specific religion) shouldn’t be allowed. </p>
<p>And this situation, in which this student recited the Lord’s Prayer after ignoring a previously approved secular speech, would be looked at completely differently if the student began with something to the effect of:</p>
<p>"Allah is the Greatest!</p>
<p>Praise and glory be to You, O Allah.
Blessed be Your Name, exalted be Your Majesty and Glory.
There is no god but You."</p>
<p>The predominant religious group should not be expressed as the sole religious group and for that reason, I feel that the inclusion of this prayer in a multicultural ceremony that spans across various religions shouldn’t be seen as a an expression of free speech, but of indirect religious oppression, however slight. </p>
<p>I just don’t think it’s fair to single out all the non-Christians at a graduation ceremony because of a religious majority.</p>
<p>Although I am not Muslim, I would support his right to say those things 100% whether he was in the minority or the majority.</p>
<p>I can appreciate that you don’t like religious speech in those settings. I realize it makes a lot of people uncomfortable.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What is in the Constitution is “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press”.</p>
<p>So it all comes down to whether the devotionally religious speech of a specific religion at the graduation at a public school constitutes “an establishment of religion”, or is the student’s “free exercise thereof” and “freedom of speech”.</p>
<p>We were raised Catholic and raised our 4 children the same.
We also chose to live in a predominately Jewish neighborhood.
When my kids were little and they got off the bus in December, they would cry because the Jewish kids made fun of them because they believed in Santa Claus.<br>
The school, although mostly Jewish children, tried to teach diversity and acceptance.<br>
My kids have learned from their teachers, as have I.<br>
So what this kid said a prayer in your opinion defiance.
Good for him.<br>
Next.</p>
<p>If this prayer had been preplanned in advance so that nonreligious people could choose to not attend, I would be okay with it, as long as a majority of students supported it. </p>
<p>However it’s pretty obvious that this spontaneous prayer goes against both school rules and the Constitution. That is unacceptable, period.</p>
<p>Spencer, no…it does not go against the Constitution or the school rules.</p>
<p>There is no school rule against students praying in a public setting. The school district simply removed prayer from the program. They did not forbid students from praying.</p>
<p>Also, the Bill of Rights (amendments to the Constitution) actually protect the right of this student to pray in public.</p>
<p>People say things all the time that I find offensive. They have the right to do it, and they don’t have to give me advance warning so that I can avoid them. That’s just life. The best thing to do is to decide not to be easily offended, and if you get offended, decide not to stay offended very long. Life’s too short to run around being offended all the time.</p>
<p>The Constitution, including the Bill of Rights, does not give the valedictorian of a high school the right to say anything he wants on the stage during a school ceremony, religious or otherwise, and does not permit cheerleaders dressed in school uniforms to march on the field during a school function parading signs with Bible verses. And the fact that the local population thinks this kind of thing is peachy keen doesn’t mean squat. No matter how parochial a community is, it is still part of the nation and doesn’t get to twist the law of the land to its own desires. I find it terribly sad that so many people have such a poor grasp of the meaning of Constitution and its interpretation by the Supreme Court over the course of 200 years.</p>
<p>This boy was nothing more than one more self-centered, entitled brat who decided that his desires trumped all. Best of luck to whoever is unfortunate enough to hire him for his first job out of college.</p>
<p>“If this prayer had been preplanned in advance so that nonreligious people could choose to not attend, I would be okay with it” </p>
<p>Really? You would have chosen not to attend your child’s h.s. graduation because of a 30 second prayer? Also, people need to Pre-Plan their choice of words to accommodate you?</p>
<p>" The best thing to do is to decide not to be easily offended, and if you get offended, decide not to stay offended very long. Life’s too short to run around being offended all the time."</p>
<p>I totally agree. There are so many opportunities to be offended, and I personally choose not to bother with it. I merely don’t participate.</p>
<p>Had I been a student at this speech (I’m agnostic, but completely respect religious people), I merely would have been bored. It would be more memorable for him to say something funny, touching, or introspective, than to recite the Lord’s prayer. Boring. So maybe he was thinking, “Whoopee, stick it to the man, I’m really standing up for my beliefs, sticking my neck out here, being a martyr?” I have no idea. But honestly, as another student, I would have hoped for something sweet, endearing, or funny. A religious recitation…boring, but not offensive.</p>