<p>^^^^ exactly busdriver^^^</p>
<p>I wouldn’t be offended, but reciting a Christian prayer in South Carolina is hardly brave or original.
He had his chance & he blew it.</p>
<p>Sometimes a man just has to make a stand. Good for him!</p>
<p>" I totally agree. There are so many opportunities to be offended, and I personally choose not to bother with it. I merely don’t participate."</p>
<p>Exactly, Busdriver. If I wasn’t interested in his speech, I would </p>
<p>a. clean my fingernails
b. play on my phone
c. look at the clouds
d. stare into space and think about something cool
e. think about the book I’m reading</p>
<p>Or any number of other things. As I said before, ask my husband! I don’t have to pay attention. And if I choose to, I’m really good at distracting myself! And it really doesn’t bother me too much.</p>
<p>This is not meant to make fun of Christianity or any other organized religion. It’s meant to illustrate what it feels like to be an atheist in a predominantly Christian society.</p>
<p>Let’s say all the people around you believed all that happens in our world is the result of actions by the fairies. On Saturdays many people go out to the woods to commune with the fairies and gather to discuss the various types of fairies and their abilities. You don’t believe in fairies but no one’s forcing you to. You actually find their fairy dancing rather beautiful and you’ve taught your kids a few traditional fairy dances.</p>
<p>Some-not all fairy sects believe that people with red hair are evil and should not be allowed to have kids. You don’t happen to have red hair, but you know a few people who do and it doesn’t seem logical to you that they should be treated any differently from anyone else, but the Book of Fairies clearly state that red is the color of evil, so in some communities red haired people are out of luck.</p>
<p>Now imagine that at all sorts of public events such as community breakfasts, the town 4th of July celebration, and your own kid’s graduation you were asked to raise your hands to the sky and thank the fairies. You were treated to speeches about the wonders of the wood fairies and the fearsomeness of the water fairies. You were told that all good in the world came from the fairies and if you didn’t understand that you were a sad person who, unfortunately, would burn in the fiery Pit of Truth. You weren’t forced to raise your hands to the sky, but when you didn’t do so you got a few funny looks and people told you you seemed to be making a point. “Just raise your hands and be silent” they said, “you don’t have to thing about fairies-you can compose a mental shopping list instead.”</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you at some point say to yourself, “Can you please just shut up about the #$(&^ fairies!”?</p>
<p>I’m coming from the perspectve as a general Christian in a very non-religious community- we all want “religious tolerance”. I say we let the kid give his speech. We should be grateful that he cares about something.</p>
<p>A person is entitled to their beliefs, but shouldn’t foist them upon others. JMO.</p>
<p>As an aside, I’ve attended county public hearings that were started with prayer that was not a generic prayer (did bring in the name of Jesus). I was uncomfortable. I’ve attended Bar Association meetings that were started with a generic prayer. It struck me as odd, but it was a generic prayer so I was less uncomfortable. And yes, this is the south. Some of those stereotypes are true.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually I’m making fun of them from a rural state. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>He’ll have to work harder to find one that rewards this level of intellectual laziness. How’s that for a paradox.</p>
<p>This conversation is why I’m glad I no longer live in the deep South. I am Christian so not against religion but the domination of “Christian” ideals in the South becomes overwhelming at times. I believe in his right to free speech but the whole thing is tiring…</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Pizzagirl – I’ve seen your comments about the South on several occasions. I am a Southerner and a Christian (Baptist, no less) who is absolutely committed to the separation of church and state, and I know so many other religious people who share my opinions. It is frustrating to me to see people insult a region of the country that I love so much.</p>
<p>I can’t control every time someone in the South does something that I don’t approve of, any more than people in Kansas can control the actions and speech of Westboro “Church” or the people in Idaho can control the Aryan Nations, which has its headquarters there. Name your state or region of the country. I’m sure there’s someone somewhere making others in the state roll their eyes, shudder, or worse.</p>
<p>Let’s take New York. I have heard several very disturbing stories about children who were bullied unmercifully in their New York City schools for being gay. Then there was the anti-Muslim group that opposed the proposed interfaith, peace-seeking Islamic cultural center in New York. Why hasn’t the media pounded New York City (or, for that matter, the entire state, or maybe the entire Northeast region) for being a hotbed of anti-gay, anti-Muslim hysteria when they are perfectly willing to jump on the whole South any time someone somewhere prays in public at an official school event?</p>
<p>The media, alas, is looking to play into the stereotypes of the South, so they give publicity (often extensive publicity) to anything that happens in this part of the country that fits their stereotypes. Stories about how my children’s openly gay teachers bring their partners with them to events at our rural, very Southern public high school don’t sell papers. Neither do stories about how a family of hijab-wearing sisters at our school are well-liked by their classmates, have been elected as class officers, and have best friends who are Christians. Neither do stories about how interracial couples are common at our school and a number of students have parents of two different races. Nope, those situations just don’t fit the national news’ idea of what the rural South is like, so they don’t get press. Or maybe, just maybe, they are the “norm” now, so they are rather boring.</p>
<p>A number of local Christian (my church included), Jewish, and Muslim congregations did, one time, get a small blurb in a state-wide paper for our ongoing interfaith charity work, but given that that kind of thing didn’t involve conflict, it just wasn’t important enough in the eyes of the media. The church leaders have tried to work up a little press to counteract negative stereotypes, but the media hasn’t been that interested.</p>
<p>
It seems people are frothing at the mouth on both sides - this student is among those frothing at the mouth over the fact that the school board chose to remove prayer from the ceremony. His froth came out in the form of a prayer.</p>
<p>It is clear the school board doesn’t really agree with their own decision, and only did it out of expedience, because there will be no punishment. I wonder what they will do next year if another student chooses to deliver an unapproved speech (and if they have ever had it happen in the past, what they did then).</p>
<p>The issue, in terms of consequences, isn’t that this student did something that may have been unconstitutional - that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is that he disagreed with a new policy, and chose graduation as the place to protest. In doing so, he broke the rules, and should face the consequences. Because there will be no consequences, the message is given that it’s OK to submit a speech for approval, and then deliver a different speech.</p>
<p>People are calling him courageous, but I can’t agree. What did he risk? He didn’t care if a handful of people attending the ceremony didn’t like what he was doing - or maybe he did, and wanted to incite them. Courage would have been delivering that speech in a country where Christianity is banned, knowing there would be serious consequences.</p>
<p>What bothers me more at this point is that said student now believes that “God used him to deliver his message.”</p>
<p>Marsian, I agree there is a problem with the way different areas are portrayed, but it is also exacerbated by the locals. When gay students in New York are bullied, it does make it into the press (at least in the northeast) and the locals are very vocal speaking out against it.</p>
<p>Given that I live in the northeast, not the south (though I have relatives in the south and have visited many times), I don’t read the southern papers, and don’t really know what the majority there believes. But when the video of this student went viral, the message was that the locals all supported him. The national press that initially went crazy over this story were those who congratulated him, making it at least appear that the majority agreed with him.</p>
<p>From my perspective, it is not the liberal northern press that is painting this picture of southerners, but the conservative portions of the press that has a stake in maintaining the illusion that the south really is that conservative. To be honest, I suspect the majority of southerners don’t really care, just as the majority of northerners don’t either. The difference is the very vocal minority in the north is the extreme liberals, while the vocal minority in the south is the extreme conservatives.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Dear fairy non believer: Before deciding on the existence of God, perhaps you should start with explaining the simpler mysteries of the universe such as how to unify the theories of gravity, black holes, and what preceded the big bang? If you can’t do the easy math, which you can’t. Then you should wait to pass judgment on the advanced classes.</p>
<p>CTScoutmom – I agree.</p>
<p>If I were the principal here, I would make it clear next year that deviation from the approved speech would be cause for discipline – no matter what the content of the deviation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Christians in the United States who complain about being persecuted for their beliefs ought to hear from some of the remaining Holocaust survivors, or maybe from Christians in Saudi Arabia or Nigeria, about what being persecuted for one’s religious beliefs really means.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You have touched on some points here that I hadn’t considered, but this makes perfect sense to me.</p>
<p>I think we have to accept that religion is not only important to many, but is a large part of our culture. Period. Now, while that’s nothing to be afraid of, it just doesn’t mean anyone should be going around buttonholing others about their preferences, one way or another. Same for numerous aspects of our identities.</p>
<p>I find it interesting that, after a long time on CC, I am only just now learning who is religious, very religious, somewhere in the middle or has no particular (religious) belief system. Ime, you have all kept it out of most CC comments. You offer comments based on topics at hand. Religion or lack of it may form you, but on this public forum, it’s not on your sleeve.</p>
<p>I think, somewhere in there, is what all this public fuss is about. What forms us versus what we insist on promoting to others. I have long felt that the principles we live by are best translated to others through our actions- not a speech at a public event for graduating seniors. But in our everyday behaviors.</p>
<p>A very useful way to decide how you REALLY feel about religious freedom/freedom of speech is to substitute a religion that is not your own, or unpopular speech. </p>
<p>Here’s the new version some might contemplate:</p>
<p>School board rules that the Muslim student president of the Math Club should no longer start club meetings by invoking Allah. Mention of Allah at school events no longer accepted.</p>
<p>Valedictorian, who happens to be Muslim, rips up his pre-arranged speech. Instead he performs the Asr, Islamic afternoon prayer.</p>
<p>Not a problem for anyone, right?</p>
<p>Wiccan valedictorian rips up “Thanks to all you moms and dads out there” speech and reads a prayer for Litha (Summer Solstice Prayer). Also good, right? What a super graduation!</p>
<p>Yes, true advocates of free speech will support this. Some would celebrate it.</p>
<p>As a Christian, I fail to understand the strong need some of my brothers and sisters feel to have prayer allowed or even promoted in public school. They seem to envision only Christian or perhaps Jewish prayers being spoken. You would think they would consider it preferable to have no prayer at all, rather than to have their kids subjected to listening to a prayer praising Satan or Krishna or Allah or Mother Earth! Obviously, if you allow prayer to Jesus, then all sorts of religious prayers have to be allowed as well in this diverse country of ours. Do they seriously want that?</p>
<p>I agree that it is in poor taste to selfishly hijack the celebration of hundreds of students and their families in order to make a political statement. However, having seen the context the boy gave for the prayer, it doesn’t seem as rude as I thought it might be. Nevertheless, Jesus commands His followers to respect civil authority and not to lie. If this young man submitted a speech for approval and then failed to deliver that speech, then he essentially lied to and disrespected authority. You can’t do God’s will by sinning.</p>
<p>Sometimes it is fun watching some people pass judgment on others whose beliefs they find to be arbitrary. The “superior” ones are usually blissfully unaware that future generations will find the great majority of their beliefs to be just as arbitrary.</p>
<p>testobsessed, since I’m not TOO familiar with either of those things, I might be slightly uncomfortable, but I would be intrigued at the same time. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t agree, obviously, because it’s not my faith, but I would support their right to express their spirituality any way they wanted (legally).</p>
<p>I’d probably say something like, “Whoa. That was different!” to myself and move on.</p>
<p>I work in a setting with people from all faiths who have many different observances. I have visited lots of places with many different customs. I’m truly not offended by the fairies. I just never raise my hands. And if someone looks at me funny, I smile and shrug.</p>
<p>This is South Carolina. If board makes silly decisions, there are consequences. Have they passed the rule on to the football teams and cheerleaders too?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865579703/Texas-high-school-cheerleaders-win-Bible-banners-case.html?pg=all[/url]”>http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865579703/Texas-high-school-cheerleaders-win-Bible-banners-case.html?pg=all</a></p>