<p>Okay. Strong feelings all around. I wouldn’t be swayed anyway, and I’m sure many of you wouldn’t either. I respect this young man’s right to do what he did, and I respect him for doing it. </p>
<p>I hope that we never reach a point that people are not allowed to express their religious, philosophical beliefs or lack thereof openly and without shame. I have friends from MANY different arenas, and I am touched by what they have to say. And I can respect the common theme through most major religions, including those in the Lord’s Prayer:</p>
<p>That many of us are humble knowing there is a God that is just. That we would like for Him to provide for us, forgive us for doing wrong against Him, ourselves and others, help us to forgive others, keep us from harm, lead us in the right paths instead of ones that might harm us.</p>
<p>I don’t really understand the statement of that offending someone, or causing someone to think the individual saying those things is “not smart” - but that’s okay, I don’t have to understand everyone. By the same token, they don’t have to understand that these things are important to me, worth saying, in my opinion, and all of the reasons why I feel that way.</p>
<p>This was obviously done in protest of the board decision to remove prayer. IMO, if they wanted the prayer led by school officials then a person should’ve gone to a religious school. </p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with being religious in a secular school. However, it is wrong IMO for a SCHOOL to lead prayer and what not unless it’s religious. </p>
<p>I said he had a right to do it. I just don’t believe the whole thing was appropriate.</p>
<p>That’s completely using the Bible out of context. What this valedictorian did is extremely commendable. The fact that he was able to stand up in front of everyone and say the Lord’s Prayer is a sign of courage. Anyone who says otherwise is hypocritical. You say we can’t speak of Christ in public, you say it’s offensive, and then you speak of gay rights, and you let other religious communities speak!? That’s offensive to us! By protecting liberal freedom of speech, Christian freedom of speech is breeched! Unacceptable. If someone doesn’t like what he said at the graduation, he or she can leave! Christians, like any other Americans, have EVERY right and more than every right like other Americans because even though you dug a pit and buried this fact: the Christians made America. Get with the program, we have rights too! We are meant to be kind, supportive, loving people who follow our Lord Jesus Christ. That does NOT make us a force to be trampled on. Don’t take our kindness for advantage.</p>
<p>I’m going to assume his school does what many schools do, where they ask the students to submit their speech ahead of time for approval. If that it the case, he violated school policy by delivering an unapproved speech. While I’m not sure I fully support the new school board policy, it is the policy currently in place. This student does have the right to protest that policy, but he also must be prepared to face the consequences of doing so.</p>
<p>As a graduation speaker he represents the school and his class, so yes the policy should apply to him as well as any other speakers at graduation. The suggestion to tell those who disagree with prayer in school to attend a non-religious school is a red herring. Students are not being prevented from praying, they are just being preventing from having an official prayer as part of their school day, or as part of school functions. If they have a moment of reflection, they are welcome to pray then. They are also welcome to pray before every test if the want - they just can’t lead the class in prayer before the test.</p>
<p>The pledge of allegiance, while similar to a prayer (and written by a baptist minister, I believe) is not the same. It does in fact relate directly to the state, not one particular religion (or group of religions).</p>
<p>What this student did was tell his classmates that his desire to have a prayer be part of his graduation overrides the desires of other classmates to not have his prayer. That he knows better than the board of education. </p>
<p>I would applaud him if he had written a speech that referred to the prayer, and maybe even included it as part of the speech - and had the speech approved ahead of time. Depending how the policy is written, there may have been room to do so. Instead, he took the lazy way out. Not cool. I would like to hear the consequences, and see if they are equivalent to what has been done in the past, or if there even is a policy (so many places outlaw specific behaviors, but don’t actually have policy set to deal with those violations, which suggests that they either believe nobody will violate them, or they don’t really agree with their own policies. We’ll see.</p>
<p>Because, I’m wondering, what was his point? </p>
<p>That the school doesn’t allow prayer, and he thinks they should, so he shows simplistic defiance and prays at the dais? Big whoop. If he thought that the school shouldn’t limit the word “f<strong>k” on campus, that it violated his constitutional rights, would you have similarly supported him yelling “F</strong>*****K!” during his speech?</p>
<p>His approach wasn’t a thoughtful (“smart”) way to address the issue, imo. A smart person would have spoken about his rights and why they matter and what they mean to him. He had an excellent opportunity to do this, but he threw it away with a dumb, defiant act that rubbed some people the wrong way.</p>
<p>Romani - I agree that a public school should not sponsor or lead prayer. I object to the infringement of the rights of students expressing their religious beliefs or even the attempt to infringe. It is happening more and more…from cheerleaders not allowed to paint scriptures on signs, which is tradition in one school, to students being asked not to pray in settings where it has traditionally been not just okay, but encouraged, especially in areas where those things are very important to the majority of the people.</p>
<p>To, all of the sudden be told, you can’t do that anymore - you need to be silenced is actually offensive to the rest of us.</p>
<p>Yes, he was responding. He was responding sort of like this, I would imagine,</p>
<p>“Faith has, in the past, been important here. There is a minority that wants it not to be acknowleged anymore. But there is a majority that misses it in a very meaningful way, so for them…The school may not be able to publicly acknowledge God, but I think many of us believe that someone should. I can, so I will.”</p>
<p>I just don’t like it when any hs speechmaker turns what should be a group message to a personal one. Kind of misses the point, for me.</p>
<p>Adding: and I don’t see this as defiance. More like affirmation, which I am not sure belongs in a hs grad service. Same as if he went off on how much sports means to him. Imo, the speech should serve as more than his personal open mike.</p>
<p>The boy will suffer no consequences according to the principal.</p>
<p>The school implemented the policy as a result of anti-religious groups threatening to sue if schools had any prayer at their graduation. This boy knew that. What he did was a political protest against an authoritarian, intolerant outside group to whom the school administration cowed to. More power to him for standing up to the intimidation of this thuggish act.</p>
<p>It was clearly not a state act, so I don’t get what all the fuss is about. I went to Catholic schools, and, in part because of that, I became an atheist at the age of 11 and have never looked back. Every time I hear someone give a prayer at any public ceremony or event, I use it as an opportunity to reflect on the difference between my beliefs and the speaker’s beliefs and to try to determine what common ground we share.</p>
<p>Also, Christians are pretty cowed these days. There is no Inquisition and there are no invading armies trying to force Christianity on others. The only belief system that any Western governments are trying to impose on others these days is that based on the free market religion, not on the Christian religion. And I doubt that many here would have howled in protest if the student had started reciting some of the sacred writings of free marketism.</p>
<p>Bay, the speech was for his community - the people there. I heard cheers and not booing. The people that would like no reference to God in that community are a bully minority. They do not reflect the opinions of the grand majority there.</p>
<p>Bay, you raise some really good points that I hadn’t even thought of. There was a thread not too long ago where a person deviated from their speech and their diploma was withheld until she apologized. For the life of me I can’t remember what she got in trouble for but I’m going to take a look for it.</p>
<p>While you are mistaken in your assertion that Jesus never offered public prayer, your premise that followers of Jesus should “take the hint” and follow his actions makes some sense.</p>
<p>Jesus prayed before 5,000 people, giving thanks to God for the loaves and fishes before his disciples distributed them (Matthew 14:19). He prayed for little children when people brought them to him to be blessed (Matthew 19:13). He prayed publicly at his crucifixion (Matthew 27:46).</p>
<p>Bay, the school allows prayer. The school is not allowed to lead prayer or to sanction prayer. There is no school rule against the boy praying.</p>
<p>He did not break any rules, and the school has already said there will be no disciplinary action. They support his right to freedom of speech and freedom of religion.</p>
<p>Actually, cursing in public over a microphone is an offense that could get you thrown in jail. Fortunately, that’s not the case with the Lord’s Prayer…yet.</p>
<p>Most val and sal speeches have personal messages in them. Besides, I get the distinct impression, that this boy’s “speech” spoke very well to the “group”, judging by the cheers and the clapping. Very glad that SOMEONE had the guts to use their moment to speak to something that REALLY meant something to the group, and not the typical yawn of a val/sal speech that people can’t wait until it’s over so we can get on with the rest of the program.</p>
<p>Cromette - while I agree students shouldn’t be told they can’t pray on school property, it is an issue when they are doing it in such a ways that they represent the school. If they are putting scripture on a sign for a school event, that represents the school. If they are leading a prayer at the beginning of an event sponsored by a school-supported club, they are representing the school. If they are appearing on a national RTV talk show in a unoform representing the school… they are doing so as a representative of the school.</p>
<p>If he had made a speech like what you suggested, not including the prayer, but indicating is meaning, that would be fine. By reciting the prayer (eve after making your statement) he is indicating the reality that those who are offended are not important, and he can’t be punished. The truth is his school chooses not to punish him, but they can. The college he plans to attend can be notified (though at this point they may already know about it), and they can rescind his acceptance, though I susepct he has probably chosen a college that won’t do so. If he’s willing to violate this policy, what other policies will he violate - and will he be prepared to face the consequences? I do not see him in the same light as the many protesters in our past who have faced severe consequences, when he knew there would likely be none. What can they do - he already graduated? (In fact, they may be able to withhold his diploma, but they don’t plan to).</p>