<p>The young man used his time to say what he wanted to say. IF the school had policies that he had to stick to a strict that was pre approved and he violated that, then, yes, he is subject to the penalties thereof, since he knowingly violated the terms. But, otherwise, if the Lord’s Prayer or recitation of a poem, or a piece of literature, a Muslim prayer, all of those things he can go right on and give. Not very original, is my thought here.</p>
<p>I think a lot of the rules regarding prayer in the schools, references to religion, acknowledging holidays traditional to this country, have gone to far in the public schools. A shame. All because some schools in some areas had to get overbearing about the whole thing, and because some folks are just too touchy about it. </p>
<p>Though it was not a reason, I have enjoyed the benefits of Catholic school for my kids. I love Christmas music and that prayer and traditional Christian references are in place there. We have a number of muslim, Jewish, atheist and non Christian kids at the school, and this is something that they had to decide if it was an issue for them, since there is no ban on the practice of the Catholic religion, and opportunities to practice it . There is no requirement for the practice, but exposure to it is inevitable and unavoidable in this environment. I would have had no qualms about putting my kids in a school that approached any religion the way this one does, though the issues with being a Muslim these days here, would make me hesitate about that particular religion. But anything else… no problem as long as it isn’t too invasive.</p>
<p>If I were a graduate on that day, I’d be uncomfortable to have someone reading a prayer, and annoyed that he chose that time to grandstand about what he thought was an injustice. He has the right to say it, I just think it was selfish to turn a speech like that into a crusade.</p>
<p>As much as I think this boy handled his opportunity in a <em>dumb</em> way, I do support his right to do so. I am not objecting to his expression of his personal faith. I also think that people who are “offended” by others’ expressions of their own faith need to examine their own values.</p>
<p>I am wondering what the response of Christians in the audience would have been, had a Jewish student been valedictorian, and instead of a traditional valedictory speech, instead recited a traditional Jewish prayer, such as Shehechianu.</p>
<p>I can just imagine the commotion. Much less if the valedictorian had been Moslem, or Sikh.</p>
<p>We don’t know the group approved/agreed or was heartened and elevated by his actions, only that there was applause (as far as I can tell.) Let’s not make him a hero. He indulged himself.</p>
<p>That said, I like the LP very much, agree it covers principles valid in many religions.</p>
<p>Matthew 14:19 - He blessed the bread; he didn’t pray in public, or lead public prayer.
Matthew 19:13 - He blessed the children individually by (apparently silently) placing his hands individually on their heads.
Matthew 27:46 - He cried out in pain, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?) Hardly a public prayer, or the leading of prayer.</p>
<p>He had many opportunities to lead public prayer, and eschewed all of them. It would have been interesting to hear the valedictorian descry his school experience, with a dramatic rendition of Matthew 27:46. ;)</p>
<p>I wonder if the valedictorian has ever prayed in a closet?</p>
<p>If I had been in the audience at a public school graduation ceremony in which the valedictorian thanked his parents for bringing him up in a particular religion, and then recited a prayer from that religion, I would have been interested to learn more about that religion and supportive of his or her right to discuss it in public.</p>
<p>Never once would I have thought that that religion was suddenly the school’s official religion or that I would be free to indulge a hobby that some have apparently adopted of being offended by someone else’s speaking out in public about his beliefs.</p>
<p>I really doubt that any crowd in the Bible Belt would have any problem with a Jewish prayer. I even doubt that many of them would have a problem with a Muslim prayer. Now a Wiccan prayer might elicit a different response.</p>
<p>I think the crowd would boo and like you said it would cause a lot of commotion, even by many Christians who argue that they have the free speech right to say Christian prayers in public schools.</p>
<p>I would like to know if the reaction of people who are offended by this boy would be the same if he had been a Muslim, Jew or Buddhist offering his prayer to an audience predominately of the same religion.</p>
<p>The Bible specifically says that Jesus prayed for the children.</p>
<p>mini wrote:
</p>
<p>Matthew 19:13 - 15 says:
</p>
<p>An argument that Christians should not pray in public because Jesus never did is revealed to be fairly specious when the Bible specifically states that Jesus prayed in public settings, and when the only response to that is that thanking God for food is not really prayer or that Jesus didn’t really pray for the children.</p>
<p>austinareadad - I agree. I would have no problem with a prayer from any religion expressed from an individual. I wouldn’t pray with…if it were not my religion, but I would be very interested to hear the prayer and detect similarities. There are usually more similarities than differences.</p>
<p>“Upon second thought, I see your point. If you want to express your gay self, then go to a school set up specifically for gays and their allies, instead of using school funds and facilities to set up Gay-Straight Alliances. After all, there is more constitutional protection to the expression of religion than there is to the expression of sexuality.”</p>
<p>Ariesathena, you know better than this. This case is about the space where the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause overlap/conflict. There’s no equivalent of the Establishment Clause in the sexuality arena. Making an analogy where the Establishment Clause half of the analysis is gone is not enlightening.</p>
<p>Interesting how some <em>assume</em> that a Christian audience would boo a prayer from another faith. What does that say about those making the assumption?</p>
<p>Being selected as a graduation speaker (based on grades, student vote, whatever…) is an honor and a privilege. While speakers do have constitutional rights (possibly limited since the Bethel v. Fraser decision, I’m just not certain if the Supreme Court would agree that a graduation speech has the same limitations as other student speech), they also have a responsibility to their audience. There is a real tension between allowing speakers to exercise their right to express themselves on issues about which they care and allowing the audience members to experience their special day without having it hijacked to further a particular political agenda. I’m sure that there were audience members who were uncomfortable with this student’s performance. Others might have been uncomfortable had the speaker chosen to argue for the impeachment of the President, the end of US drone strikes, etc. Any time we invite someone to speak at an event, we run the risk that they may say something that we don’t want to hear.</p>
<p>That said, and regardless of whatever legal protections adhere to graduation speeches, at most every school that I know of, student graduation speakers are required to submit their scripts for review in advance. This is usually done to allow the administration to remove inappropriate humor or criticism of teachers or school policies. Straying from the script would be, in many places, a cause of disciplinary action. While a student cannot be suspended after graduation, there are probably still some options that the school could exercise. Here is an example of a similar event. [Colo</a>. student loses appeal over graduation speech - The Denver Post](<a href=“Colo. student loses appeal over graduation speech – The Denver Post”>Colo. student loses appeal over graduation speech – The Denver Post) The federal appeals court refused to hear the case, allowing the school district’s disciplinary action to stand. </p>
<p>I am a big fan of Justice Black, but I recognize that First Amendment absolutism can be a real problem in institutions (schools, workplaces, etc.) that are legally required to provide equal opportunity and avoid creating a hostile environment for particular classes of people.</p>
<p>“I would like to know if the reaction of people who are offended by this boy would be the same if he had been a Muslim, Jew or Buddhist offering his prayer to an audience predominately of the same religion.”</p>
<p>"Interesting how some <em>assume</em> that a Christian audience would boo a prayer from another faith. What does that say about those making the assumption? "</p>
<p>" the only response to that is that thanking God for food is not really prayer or that Jesus didn’t really pray for the children."</p>
<p>In Jewish tradition there is a massive difference between offering the blessings over food and praying in public. And, as noted, in the second case, Jesus did not offer a public prayer for the children. He individually put his hands on their heads, apparently silently, and then left, without any public prayer whatsoever.</p>
<p>As to the third case, simply a very personal cry of anguish. </p>
<p>At any rate, his own words are very clear. Go into your closet…</p>
<p>I would have respected the valedictorian much more if he had offered the case for public prayer. But he chose not to, instead simply chose not prayer at all, but, in context, incitement.</p>