I understand that GPA is understood to be the most important factor in admissions. With that being said, which top schools value high SAT/ACT scores over GPA/rank?
Why do you think any of them would?
Because the complexity of evaluating grades/rank @ vastly different educational institutions is accelerating, while all students are administered a standardized test of similar difficulty.
Also, because there is a thread on this very CC that states UPenn, Vanderbilt, & Princeton value high test scores first and foremost. However, that thread is ten years old & most likely out of date…so, I wanted to ask again.
The highly selective colleges generally have admission rates under 10%. There simply is not enough space to take all of the extremely well qualified applicants. Every aspect of the application is important. I can’t imagine any highly selective college wouldn’t be looking for an outstanding transcript (including both GPA, course rigor) as part of the evaluation process.
Correct. I am not indicating GPA and course rigor is not of the upmost importance. I am inquiring about current trends within the holistic proces. I am asking which highly selective colleges place a HEAVY EMPHASIS on test scores as part of the overall evaluative process.
The USNWR ranking gamers/climbers may be ones to look at, since the selectivity component of the USNWR rankings is heavily weighted toward test scores.
In some cases, a comparison of frosh profiles can give an indication of how different colleges weight test scores versus HS GPA or rank. For example, USC and UCLA are widely seen as comparable in admission selectivity. But looking at their frosh profiles suggests that USC places a higher value on test scores, while UCLA places a higher value on HS GPA.
https://admission.usc.edu/firstyear/prospective/profile.html
http://www.admission.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_fr/Frosh_Prof.htm
However, do not expect a 1600 SAT score to cause a highly selective college to ignore a 2.5 HS GPA and lower half rank, even if it is a college that weights test scores more heavily relative to HS GPA and rank.
GPA is a cumulative effort from several years while a good test score may just need a few months of preparation.
Take a look at University of Nebraska,Lincoln, Baylor University, University of Alabama and West Virginia University.
Northeastern University is more stats oriented these days and seems to value SAT/ACT over GPA, though it’s all important to them.
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@oak2maple I know this thread is a few months old, so dunno if your still looking, but here’s some thoughts.
“Top Schools” is too broad a term. What level are you looking for?
As the above states, Baylor publishes a merit list that gives good $$ (20K or so) for high ACT/SAT with a relatively low GPA number. Really though, it depends on what “low” GPA is. And it will also depend on what school it is from and how rigorous your course load was. Anything over a 3.7, coupled with decent rigor and very high SAT/ACT scores will get you into at least one “top 25” school assuming there is no other hole in your resume and you write very good essays (and particularly if you have a mitigating story, like lots of high-level sports or need to work to aid family etc. etc.)
If you mean 3.5-3.7 it becomes a bit more scattershot, in my experience. And 3.0 - 3.5 (UW) takes some pretty specific targeting of schools where your standardized test score will be way over the 75% but your GPA will be near the bottom.
There are various threads around here that can give you some idea. The one for students with 3.0-3.4 GPA from 2017 has a long list that a poster compiled of the stats of each of those kids, including SAT/ACT and their acceptance.
If you have any interests in international study, McGill, assuming you have a “B+” GPA, (3.33 + for Arts college, Science and Engineering and other specialties can be higher) is particularly interested in test scores. The Brit U’s as well, esp if you have managed mostly 4’s and 5’s in your APs.
There is also a thread going right now for this subject for 2018 students where students have been posting stats and acceptances.
Hope this helps.
To see what a college values in admissions, look at their Common Data Set in section C7
@CaliDad2020 I am talking about gpa of 3.5 - 3.7 w/ SAT of 1570
This is an an applicant that has very strong teacher recs, highest course rigor offered, leadership roles, research grant, some national awards, and the student took extra classes in addition to what was required each term. For such a student, is ivy/ivy equivalent realistic? Also, had 4.0 gpa all of 11th grade, but 9th and 10th grade not as strong. Is their a highly selective university that would admit a student w/ an unweighted gpa of 3.6? You may ask, why the less than stellar gpa? … intense commitment to extracurriculars took its toll. It is actually stated on college confidential in past thread that Princeton does not count 9th grade year grades, I wonder if this is true?
A lot of colleges also like to see improvement. If they can maintain a high gpa in 12th grade 9th and 10th will have less of an impact.
I remember a Tufts info session in which this was discussed.
"This is an an applicant that has very strong teacher recs, highest course rigor offered, leadership roles, research grant, some national awards, and the student took extra classes in addition to what was required each term. For such a student, is ivy/ivy equivalent realistic? "
What you’re describing sounds very similar to my son’s stats. He didn’t have any research grants, but did do extensive research and projects on his own outside school. He’s headed to UChicago next year. He was accepted in their ED round and I suspect for an applicant with comparatively low grades in an otherwise strong application, the extra boost in an ED or SCEA round makes a difference.
If you’re full pay or close to it, also consider the UK unis. They do not give aid to foreign students, but compared to US schools, they’re a bargain. And a bachelor’s degree only takes three years. UChicago full price is approx $300k for a bachelor’s vs. approx $175K for a bachelor’s from London School of Economics or Imperial (both are Ivy level and both admitted my son as well.) UK schools don’t really care much about your grades or ECs, they’re more interested in your national standardized test scores like SAT and AP.
If the particular student you have in mind is likely to be a National Merit contender, take a look at those threads. There are still plenty of universities with very preferential treatment as well as huge scholarships. They are not going to be the most prestigious overall but many have excellent honors colleges.
I have seen enough students with perfect test scores and near-perfect grades, with tons of rigor, get spurned by the top-20 universities and LACs. Lesser stats have even less chance. Unless s/he’s an athlete or first-generation or Intel finalist or underrepresented minority, cast the net wide and love your safeties. There are many more excellent schools than you think.
@prodesse UChicago & Cambridge are at the top of the list. Thanks for confirming that is the direction the applicant ought to be pursuing.
“@CaliDad2020 I am talking about gpa of 3.5 - 3.7 w/ SAT of 1570
This is an an applicant that has very strong teacher recs, highest course rigor offered, leadership roles, research grant, some national awards, and the student took extra classes in addition to what was required each term. For such a student, is ivy/ivy equivalent realistic? Also, had 4.0 gpa all of 11th grade, but 9th and 10th grade not as strong. Is their a highly selective university that would admit a student w/ an unweighted gpa of 3.6? You may ask, why the less than stellar gpa? … intense commitment to extracurriculars took its toll. It is actually stated on college confidential in past thread that Princeton does not count 9th grade year grades, I wonder if this is true?”
@oak2maple As I’m sure you know, no one on this site, no matter how experienced they are, can tell you if X higly competitve school will take Y talented student. There is simply no way to know until the comittee reads. I’ve talked with too many GC’s with years of experience and who know the competition from inside their school who will still tell you they can’t predict which school will admit which “near perfect” applicant these days.
The reality is If a student has a 3.6 UW GPA without some very strong (ie. recruited and “walked in” athletic ability) or other amazing EC, they face longer odds, even with strong board scores. But obviously some kids with those numbers get into “Top” schools every year, just not nearly as many as kids with 3.8+/1500. For many schools at some point the SAT no longer matters. I don’t know the number for each school, but aside from engineering and some business programs as well as highly technical schools (CIT, MIT perhaps), once a student is over 750+/- (and sometimes less) in SAT catagories they are on to the next metric.
But things like upward trend, strong ECs, strong LORs, uniqueness of any kind can, of course, mitigate against a lower GPA to a certain extent, but does start the applicant further back in the pack. That’s just reality.
From what I have seen over the years, really strong applications with those stats tend to get into at least one “top” school, but they rarely have much luxury of choice. As the Harvard-Westlake acceptance chart or the 3.5-3.8 GPA 33-35 ACT thread on CC shows, it can be done, but it’s long odd and the rest of the application needs to be stellar.
That said, a kid with those stats will get into an amazing college situation, especially if they are more creative and open to other opportunities than “just” top 10/Ivies.
If anything my advice would be to make sure the applicant has some true safties they would be excited about attending, as with those stats they should get into some really great schools, I just have no idea which one it will be.