Putting together S27’s application list and UM checks one of his preferred boxes (In a college town) so am researching It for the first time (neither of his siblings applied there). His school has pretty abysmal acceptances there historically (per SCOIR/Naviance) so the first place I had a look was at the latest CDS.
Until seeing it for the University of Michigan, I had never seen a CDS list a required 3 units History and 1 unit of Social Studies. Recommended sure, required no (they define a unit as a full year of study). And I thought maybe a 3rd History was a high school graduation requirement in Michigan also but its not, just the standard 2 (US/World). So I’m curious about this because there are a lot of Social Studies electives (Psychology, Economics, Human Geography) so I could understand better if it were 2 History and 2 Social Studies or even just 4 credits in Social Studies and leaving History blank (which is the most common I’ve seen) because History is already core Social Studies. But the fact that they intentionally list it as requiring 3 History and 1 Social Studies I assume leaves a lot of students applying without even knowing they do not meet the requirements. Am I giving the CDS too much credit here, do those not have to be accurate (ever audited), or do more students take European History than I realized?
Recommended often means required.
In this sort of case, I wouldn’t use the CDS - which often can be wrong. Sure, it’s nice as a guide but most schools talk about HS Prep on their website.
In general, at least four years in all core areas is better. So 3 may be a floor for UM but four is better. Typically, all you mention from Human Geo to History to Psych - are all social sciences and will count. Government, Econ too. It’s sort of following your HS guidelines and then adding the rigor components.
This is direct from the U of M admission website.
That is an unusual way of putting it, maybe, but I think 4 years of history/social studies is likely very strongly preferred and probably typical of top students applying to UM as it is by would be at many highly selective schools - many of whom prefer (if not require) 4 years of all 5 core subjects…(even if not on CDS)
if not taking 4 years of this what are kids at your school taking?
I suspect they say 3 and 1 so that people aren’t freaked out by all 4 history if they took AP human geography one year or Ap govt one year.
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But on their website, it’s simply social studies. This is a situation where the website and not CDS would be a more assured source.
One could also email and ask. But assuredly 2 history, an ap geo and psych, a gov and econ would be 4.
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ahh I get it. Website says 3 and CDS 4…that is also wacky.
CDS is probably from 13 years ago and the the data analyst in university data services didn’t get memo…as you said, CDS is often not up to date.
It is not a terrible idea to send an email to admissions@ (or whatever the general email is), including the Website URL and CDS, and seeing what they say.
I had a very “Who’s on first” conversation with someone at admissions during a tour about a CDS. (Not UM but a state flagship)
Kid wasn’t on list for the engineering tour for some reason that we showed up to…
Admissions rep (an adult, not student). “Oh, do you want me to put them in the database as having toured so admissions can see ?
me: “Demonstrated interest isn’t considered anymore right?” (I knew it had been, and they changed not long ago).
Admissions rep “correct, but most parents want it in there for admission to see when reviewing the application.”
me: “But if admissions is reviewing it during it, is interest actually considered? If so, then you should change your website and CDS.”
rep: “Oh no, it isn’t reviewed and not considered, but parents want it in there.”
me: blank face
Thanks for replies. It was the intentional breakdown of History (and 3 of them) and Social Studies that had me scratching my head, as most I’ve seen (and as their website does) lump everything into Social Studies. If the 3 actual “History” were truly required as the CDS indicates then that would have eliminated most students I know as the beyond US/World requirements History electives are limited to a local History class (which is only a semester and wouldn’t fulfill the “unit” anyway) and AP/DE/CCP European History which is not commonly taken. Honestly though the 4 in whatever combination of History/SS its still likely the hurdle for STEM or business leaning students at his school - which have typically been the ones interested in UM - as they would have had to prioritize it in their schedule over the advanced science/engineering/computer/business courses they preferred.
I am actually disappointed to learn that the CDS doesn’t have to be accurate as I always assumed it was real time institutional data, so I was definitely giving it too much credit for looking more like an “official report” rather than a website!
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Students do NOT need advanced engineering or business schools for ANY college in the US, let alone UM. Adcom’s are far more concerned with students having covered off the basics- three lab sciences, foreign language, history, English lit, math.
I see kids who have gone “above and beyond” to demonstrate their interest in “my major” in HS and then they are crushed when they are rejected. Taking anatomy instead of history will not position you favorably as a “future pre-med”. HS anatomy will not help you get into med school, and certainly won’t help you get into college.
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My son will only graduate with 3 SS (unless we make some last minute changes now) with US and World History and Gov (a full year course at his school) but our state has a required financial literacy course that I guess some admissions might consider SS and others wouldn’t. He considered AP Micro which I guess would have got him to 4 but opted for elective in investment portfolios instead. In addition to the Euro that is not as popular they do have SS electives so there are certainly some graduating with 4, he’s just overly heavy in computer, math, and engineering electives.
AP Micro is a lot more valuable than the investment class IMHO. And covering off a social studies requirement will pay more dividends than advancing in engineering. University engineering programs honestly and truly will teach him what he needs to learn. He does not need to do it in HS. And what is a “math elective”?
This is why they require three. They flat out say in the paragraph that we want four but require three. That’s to give them flexibility in the likelihood that they end up wanting your son.
But to @blossom point, Econ or Government//Civics - whatever they have - would be a far better choice if you’re looking to impress a college with rigor - than the portfolios class.
So many take AP CS instead of - a core subject.
And what Michigan is telling you is - that’s a mistake.
In the end, a student has to live with their choices because even if they take Econ, there’s still no guarantee at Michigan.
So a student has to decide what’s important to him. But if Michigan is saying this, competitive schools will feel the same way.
In essence, take your core - and then if there’s anything left, take electives. So he might love that class and it might be great for him, but it’s likely irrelevant to college admissions at rigor seeking schools.
Good luck.
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Oh no I didn’t say they were taking those to get into schools, they preferred them as their interest areas and thus chose those for their additional space in their schedules. Since 4 isn’t required at their school, they would have had to prioritize taking a 4th is what that statement was referring to. I personally encouraged my kids to take their high school courses to try and figure out what they liked and wanted to spend four more years taking. Taking a 4th year of SS would only be to get into schools as its not an interest area for him.
There is no world where this– in HS- is more valuable than European history.
Running simulations is fun. Competing in an investment challenge can be a hoot. But unless your HS employs Warren Buffet, this seems like the easiest class to dump in order to take a real history or social studies class.
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Well I don’t agree on the value of European history, and there is more to his desire to take the course (which I think is unfairly diminished to an investment challenge but is neither here nor there) but I have heard your point on the 4th year of SS and appreciate your response to my initial inquiry. We will have to weigh with him how much increasing his small shot at these schools is worth changing his senior elective choices.
Understanding Euro history is an important component to understanding monetary policy, the creation of the Euro, Brexit, what has happened in Hong Kong since the Brits withdrew (and why they were there in the first place) all of which are important levers in sophisticated portfolio theory. It’s more than just math and it’s more than just algorithms.
But your S should take what he’s interested in- just being clear that some choices will preclude other choices.
In my MBA program (considered top 5, for what it’s worth) you could not take Portfolio/Investment Theory before completing Micro, Macro, statistics, and one semester each of accounting and finance.
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IME most colleges will consider this an elective.
AP Micro would be a core class and show rigor. Colleges will consider the investment portfolio class to be an elective and not show rigor. Is there some HS club or external group where he can get exposure to investment management?
I get that kids should take what they like but only after they have taken four years of core classes in each of the five core areas. Engineering is not core. Finance is not core (econ is.) Not having these core classes can close doors at some colleges (obviously the more selective are where it becomes more of a disadvantage to fall short on core courses.)
I respect the value of European History you’ve shared and can appreciate its importance in the trajectory of your MBA program. At the high school level and for an engineering applicant its value leans much more toward checking a requirement box…but one we now need to consider.
Yes I think we will revisit the discussion we had about AP Micro and see if we can add that now.
This is the key.
If he wants Michigan, but he’s ok with Indiana, Ohio State, MInnesota or Michigan State as subs, then no problem. If he wants to maximize his chance for Michigan though, he’s better with the social science class.
But still - there’s no assurance of Michigan, so he could take the class he doesn’t want to to have that 4th year, and still fall short. Or he could take the class he does want, and still get in….none of us can say for sure.
It’s simply an odds increase thing - and as long as he’s aware of the possibilities, then he should make the best choice for him.
Many will say - but I’ve met my HS or state requirements….but university requirements, especially selective schools, are typically above.
No matter, if he takes that elective and has great grades and a test score, there will be many wonderful colleges that would love to have him, Michigan or otherwise.
The other thing is - with a name like hokiemama - well, Michigan might turn your kid down anyway, assuming he’s going to accept Va Tech over them!!! Yield management!! 
Good luck.
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What I found really good for an engineering applicant - not sure if they are still taking apps - but short Summer programs like Purdue STEP or RHIT Operation Cataplut - those are the two maybe best known but there are many - a couple weeks doing engineering type stuff.
My son went through four majors his last two years - Astrophysics, Professional Pilot, Meteorology before he decided MechE (for the wrong reasons…a solid career). So we sent him to STEP to validate an interest in engineering - and that solidified it.
I would think so more than a class quite honestly. Engineering is - according to my son - math, math, and more math - with a dose of physics thrown in. The classwork likely isn’t overly exciting. But a real life experience in one of these summer sessions somewhere might help validate an interest in a much more conducive way.
You are not wrong, Virginia Tech is high on his list for several very good reasons. Michigan for the time being (have not visited) is a school we wanted to look more into as we make the application list because its always mentioned on lists for strong engineering schools in college towns. This thread came out of that ‘looking further into’ process but yes now that you put it that way…why would he even need to apply, Go Hokies 
!
