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<p>The quote that I was responding to talked about past behavior as consideration for being a perpetrator. I was asking which of the players was previously charged with rape so that they could be currently considered a perpetrator for the CM rape.</p>
<p>A combination of 42 unindicted students and parents sued Duke. There is ongoing litigation over insurance coverage.</p>
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<p>Just to set the record straight:</p>
<p>: Finnerty and several friends, out drinking in Georgetown, a popular
: nightlife attraction in the D.C. area, confronted Scott Herndon and
: Jeffrey Bloxsom outside a restaurant. Although a fight did ensue, all
: witnesses agreed that Finnerty never struck anyone, only shadow boxing
: near Bloxsom’s face.</p>
<p>: Judge Bayly found Finnerty guilt of assault regardless, sentenced him
: to six months probation and ordered him to stay out of Georgetown.</p>
<p>: Ironically, the conviction does very little to affect Collin
: Finnerty. As a first offender, his misdemeanor conviction will be
: expunged from his record if he adheres to the condition of his
: probation for six months. His attorneys plan to appeal the conviction
: anyway.</p>
<p>In New Hampshire, when an arrest or conviction is set aside, it’s
illegal even to talk about it. I believe that the conviction results
in the situation where it never happened. I have not studied the
applicable law in DC so I am not sure but it would be as if it never
happened in my state. It appears to me that the judge in DC was a bit
over the top in Finnerty’s case and that was brought out at KC’s blog.</p>
<p>At any rate, Finnerty never assaulted anyone. He was just convicted
of assaulting someone.</p>
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<p>The reason that they hired two strippers was because of the drinking
age. They had gone to clubs in the past be the younger members of the
team couldn’t go. Interestingly enough, Brodhead is one of the
University presidents calling for the drinking age to be lowered to 18
to avoid the legal conflicts that colleges have to deal with.</p>
<p>As far as strippers go, I’ve read that male strippers hired by female
teams at Duke are very common too. Interesting that you’d only point
to sons and not daughters.</p>
<p>Well, BCEagle, it is interesting that you only argue for the innocent accused rapists in jail and not for the many true rapists and the atrocities against women that really do exist in large numbers. Whereas…I, and many others acknowledge that it is horrible that anyone is falsely accused or even convicted if innocent. But those smaller numbers (which still are of concern) don’t preclude our concern of the many rapes that do occur against women, many which go unreported and many which never result in convictions or jail time. Might you not care just as much about those? Dispute the statistics as much as you want. There are numerous studies of how many rapes occur, how many are unreported, how many result in jail time. Even if the data is not exactly the same from one study to another, let’s call it a “LOT”…and more than the number of innocent men convicted of rape sitting in a jail (and yes, more than “one” is too much, I agree).</p>
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<p>It’s interesting how you do so little research to form your opinions.</p>
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<p>My perspective is from my personal experiences.</p>
<p>I count the cost in all battles and expend only the energy that I need to make particular points. Additional features cost extra.</p>
<p>For every “false” allegation of rape, and it really doesn’t happen very often, just in high profile cases, there are probablly at least a hundred that don’t get reported. </p>
<p>Imagine if they police said, well, no DNA, then must be no rape. Sexual assualts happen every second. False allegations are few and far between.</p>
<p>And some men, well they think that once a girl says yes, she can’t change her mind. I say, anytime she says stop, you better stop. </p>
<p>I too wonder how “consensual” it was with 5 big men standing over you. And to video tape it, how gross can young men get. Bet their mama’s are so proud of them.</p>
<p>As for the girl, yes I find her sad. She never should have filed a false claim, it makes it so much hared for real victims to come forward. I see evidence of that here on this thread. If I were BCeagles kid, I would bet I would end up feeling it was my fault if I was assualted.</p>
<p>Oh, and jsut found some statistics. Seems that false allegations of rape are no hirer than false allegations of other crimes. Within a percentage point. Imagine that.</p>
<p>There will always be false allegations of any crime. That’s why we have a judicial system and trials. </p>
<p>Very few men in prison for rape are innocent. One is too many for sure. But that number is far fewer than the men who go free who are guilty of rape. </p>
<p>I care about both. It is amazing that someone only cares to dwell on the innocent men in jail for rape.</p>
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<p>And you know this because …</p>
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<p>In the Duke Lacrosse case, there was DNA. Tons of it. From a bunch of
different people. Just none from the Duke Lacrosse players. The police,
procescutor, angry studies department and other kooks said that there
was a rape.</p>
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<p>And you know this because …</p>
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<p>And you know this because …</p>
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<p>There’s a funny section in Durham In Wonderland talking about electronic
evidence exhonerating the men in the Hofstra case and electronic evidence
in the Duke Lacrosse Case. It talks about Duke’s requirement to require
consent at every stage of the act because of what you talk about. It talks
about getting explicit consent (as in writing) though that still isn’t
enough. KC surmises that everything should be videotaped to avoid false
accusations according to Duke’s code of conduct.</p>
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<p>Well, she admitted that it was consensual with the big police officers
in the police department and the falsely accused in jail. It seems as
if you, too, are blaming the victims here. I guess that you condone that
in general.</p>
<p>As I said before, two of the young men claimed that they didn’t have sex
with her so get your numbers straight.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately that’s what saved them here.</p>
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<p>Well, that is a matter that their families will have to deal with. But
I find blaming the victims in pretty poor taste.</p>
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<p>I personally don’t care for insulting other people or their children
that are members of this forum so I’ll leave that with a comment of
ad hominem.</p>
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<p>Wonderful. I have a peer-reviewed research study that found it
somewhere around 40 to 60 percent. Which do you believe?</p>
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<p>What specifically have you done for both to improve their situations?</p>
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<p>BCEagle, we are having a discussion on a topic. I care about MANY issues, but do not have the time to devote my life to them all, sorry. Do you? I have a job that I devote my time to and volunteer for other things. I can care about something without having done something significant to fight for the cause. </p>
<p>My point was that I acknowledged that false accusations or even imprisoned innocent people are not OK at all. But I also believe that the issue of the number of real rapes and sexual assaults against women is a large number, as are unreported rapes and men who are guilty of rape who are free and not in jail. One can care about both issues. </p>
<p>Your posts come across as only caring about the falsely accused or the even smaller number who are in jail who are innocent but no concern for the many guilty rapists who are free. </p>
<p>That was the point…care about both. BOTH matter. It is just amazing to me that your entire stance is ONLY about innocent men who are either accused or the even smaller number who are actually convicted who are innocent. They clearly matter. That is a travesty. But you give no support at all for the much greater number of free men who are rapists. </p>
<p>I didn’t ask you to improve the situation. It is just a discussion. You don’t even acknowledge it and merely argue some statistics that others post. Who cares the exact number in the statistics…every single study would put the number of real rapists who go free or unreported as GREATER than falsely accused rapists and even MUCH greater than innocent men in jail for rape. THAT is the point. </p>
<p>Care about both situations. I mean, you do have a daughter, I believe. This is not a feminist issue. To be on ONE side of the issue is very telling, in my view. I can see both sides. You don’t seem to. The fact that you ask me what I have done to improve their situations is ridiculous. It’s a conversation on issues. Can I discuss the economy or health care issue without having personally done work on the issue? I mean really now. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>one more point. Yes, men have been freed after years in prision for rape, when it was discovered they weren’t the rapist because of new testing, etc.</p>
<p>That does not mean the woman wasn’t rraped. It is usualy that the police and prosecutersrushed to judgement, did faulty lineups, disregarded evidence and oushed through a conviction. Also, in many cases there was inadequate defense.</p>
<p>So, we all agree that innocent people should not be convicted. But to place the blame on the very few cases of false claims is just wrong.</p>
<p>Look at the way the justice system handled the cases. And it seldom was the victims intention for an innocent man to go to prison. They too often trusted the police to arrest the right man</p>
<p>BC Eagle-- I’ve actually done quite a bit of work with rape victims, as well as the families of rape victims. It is a really awful crime and it impacts the family members in awful ways, as well. Women are raped. Men are raped. Children are raped. It is a wildly unreported crime, specifically because of the trauma of the investigation on the victim of the rape. It’s very difficult to go through.</p>
<p>It is one of the leading causes of post traumatic stress disorder, to the point where most of the specialist who work in the area, speak of traumatized soldiers and truamatized rape victims in the same breath. It can destroy a life.</p>
<p>Is it a complete shame that the Duke situation ensued for what somebody believed would be thier political gain? Absolutely. It is a crime not only against those wrongly accused young men but also against the victims who really are reporting a real crime. The sensationization of this in the media is exactly why victims DONT report. It is the worst nightmare of many that the case would even become known publicly.</p>
<p>The press ought not to have reported these boys at Hofstra’s name. Plain and simple. The investigation should have run its course and the girl ought to be charged, simply becuase what she did was an awful crime against these boys and against any woman at Hofstra who actually is raped in the future. And it will happen.</p>
<p>Because I looked up statistics and research. And have been following cases of convicted people going free after new evidence is brought to light. If you look at those cases, you will see that there was a crime, not a false claim, but that there was fault in the system. Wanted to make the case, to locked up the most convient guy. </p>
<p>And if you look at the research, many cases are never reported to the police. That is a fact you can’t just brush away with snarky little remarks.</p>
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<p>I don’t say that I care for things. I just do something concrete for
things that I’m concerned about. I work full time and raise a
family. I’ve spent thousands of hours volunteering on open source
projects. On actual innocence I’ve made legislative efforts in my
state.</p>
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<p>I do not see the point of your view of care.</p>
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<p>Last I checked, I paid a lot of money to fund police and prosecutors
to take care of them.</p>
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<p>They don’t need my support.</p>
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<p>It isn’t my point nor my discussion. In debate, you focus on your own
point. Extra features cost extra.</p>
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<p>You opened the door on care. I don’t really think that it has any real
meaning. Deeds, not words. Words don’t matter.</p>
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<p>That’s being generous.</p>
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<p>And railroading.</p>
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<p>That’s a strawman. Go back in the thread to see my main point.</p>
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<p>Prosecutors often block attempts to reopen a case. I don’t know
whether they can’t deal with the idea that they convicted an innocent
person or if they don’t want their records tarnished or if they don’t
want to be blamed for their employer having to pay out a
settlement. In some cases, innocents are allowed to go free if they
agree not to sue. That’s a pretty awful way to get your freedom.</p>
<p>But my main point was on the balancing of the scales of justice. The
approach of arrest before investigation is the same as fire, ready, aim.</p>
<p>Arrest before investigation is awful, for many reasons. I hope whoever went through an accusation of rape in your family was not unduly harmed by the process.</p>
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<p>You care by your deeds.</p>
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<p>I am personally familiar with PTSD.</p>
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<p>This doesn’t work today. Information is instantaneous and it would have
hit the internet from friends or those in the know. There was a picture
of a horrible car accident in California a while ago and a picture of
the girl made it onto the internet. I think that one of the emergency
rescue workers sent it to someone and it got out to the world in a short
period of time.</p>
<p>The benefit of doing an investigation first is that names don’t get
into the public record. Once in the public record, it’s there forever.</p>
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<p>This has never happened in my family.</p>
<p>In general, I write specifically. It is best not to read into what I write that which is not there.</p>
<p>BCEagle, on the one hand you call this a “debate” and then on the other you claim that words don’t matter, only deeds do. </p>
<p>Why are you on a message board? Are only those of us who have done deeds about false accusations / imprisoned innocent people or deeds about victims of rape whose attackers are never brought to justice allowed to discuss the topic? Geez. </p>
<p>If your main point, is as you claim, “the balancing of the scales of justice”…then that balance includes concern for the justice of rape victims whose attackers are never brought to justice, every bit as much as the concern for justice for those innocently accused or jailed if innocent. Then, YOU will truly have a valid point about the BALANCE of the scales of justice. Your posts are ENTIRELY tipping the scale toward the wrongly accused. Both sides of that scale of justice matter. Balance matters, as even YOU claim.</p>