Hold off on all Toyotas?

<p>Right before all of the Toyota problems came to light, DH and I were mulling over looking at the Toyota FJ Cruiser. Our HS daughter would be driving this car as well. </p>

<p>I haven't heard of any problems with this particular car (YET), but I of course consider safety the prime consideration, particularly with a novice driver in the family. On the other hand, there are probably some great deals to be had on Toyotas right now, even models which have not been associated with the acceleration/braking problems.</p>

<p>I'm not set on the FJ Cruiser; in fact, I may decide I hate it after looking at it and test driving it. I know very little about it other than what I have observed out in traffic.</p>

<p>So do you think all Toyotas are likely "infected" with the various problems we're hearing about? Should we hold off on any Toyota until it's clear that these problems with the Camry/Corolla/Prius have been addressed and permanently corrected?</p>

<p>I would, personally. Right now, Toyota is tainted. I also think about resell issues.</p>

<p>I agree, regardless of deals, I expect we may see still more issues come out since they've proven they haven't been forthcoming to date and I agree on resale and potentially insurance rates could be affected.</p>

<p>I have a Toyota as do many people that I work with. A few have concerns but most aren't worried about it as we have older Toyotas. I glanced at a headline a few days ago indicating that Toyota sales are doing well, probably due to beefed up incentives. I've looked at Toyotas for a few years but wasn't interested because of the styling and tech specs; this was before any of the safety issues surfaced.</p>

<p>^^^^Hmm, those are good points. What's that quote? "There is no reality-only perception."</p>

<p>Exactly. I know many, many happy Toyota owners, but there is now this perception that there's something wrong with the brand and most likely more to come because Toyota isn't being forthcoming. It's like being offered a great deal on a Ford Pinto back in '70s!</p>

<p>We have 3 Toyota-made vehicles in our family (none are recalled, but I gather that the 2000 truck might need to pay a visit to the dealership), and the resale value is not even on the radar for us, since we plan to keep the cars for as long as they last. The dust will settle. Anyone remember the Firestone tires? They are still being sold, and the local Bridgestone shop is doing OK.</p>

<p>Daughter bought toyota during cash for clunkers. 2009. Not a recall. We won't let her drive it.
H is engineer. Says its a software problem. Probably on all of them.</p>

<p>We have owned camry, 4 runner and avalon in past.</p>

<p>Will unload the Toyota soon.</p>

<p>PT Cruiser is a tough car for a new driver. Big. Hard to know where it is on the road. Lousy visibility. D wanted one but she couldn't afford it. Cool looking though.Fun to drive. It has three wiper blades in front!</p>

<p>I agree with sax - FJ Cruiser is not a good car for a beginner, Toyota or not. We test drove one, and I felt like I was in a tank. My Tundra is a piece of cake to drive compared to an FJ Cruiser.</p>

<p>^^^^That's good to know. I thought since the driver would be sitting up high, it would give good visibility. My D occasionally is lacking on her global awareness when driving, so I thought the extra height would be a bonus.</p>


<p>It is the side/back visibility that is the problem.Little windows. With todays drivers swiftly weaving through traffic on the highways it would be too easy to not see someone that has come up on you or next to you.</p>

<p>Oh and pulling into and out of parking spaces would be a bear.</p>

<p>Anyone else notice how many cars have long creased dents on the side of the cars (near the center) at SUV bumper height. These dents are caused by people in large SUV's pulling into and out of parking spots and hitting your car while doing so. Half of them don't evem know they are hitting something. It infuriates me.</p>



<p>Anyone remember Audi? They had a sudden acceleration scandal of their own back in the late 80s. Their sales went down the toilet, and it took them over a decade after the problem was fixed for their sales to get back up to the pre-trouble levels. </p>

<p>Toyota will weather this storm, but first they've got to find and fix this problem beyond mere floor mats, gas pedals, and blaming their customers. After that the dust will settle and the damage to their brand can be repaired, but it will take years, not weeks or months.</p>

<p>Do you think many people realize Scion and Lexus are also Toyota?</p>



<p>They may have changed their pedal placement but they really didn't
have a production error. Jeep had the exact same problem. An overlay
of their pedal placement with Audi's showed that they were nearly
identical. Customers swore that they were hitting the brake but they
weren't. The Audis back then had 2.2 liter 5-cylinder engines that
put out about 130 HP. This was mated to a three-speed automatic. In
other words, this car didn't have a lot of power. You could get
decent performance with the five-speed close-ratio transmission
but there were no sudden acceleration problems with the manual
transmission - surprise! People that know how to drive manual
transmissions expect three pedals!</p>

<p>Audi recovered financially because they changed the character and
direction of their company. Before the 90s, they were a car for
enthusiasts. In the 90s, they made the decision to go into the
luxury market. It really annoyed the enthusiasts but financially it
was the right thing to do for Audi.</p>

<p>BTW, who was the original 60 Minutes show sponsored by? Mercedes.</p>



<p>Whether it was a production error or a design error in pedal placement is a distinction without a difference. Either way they had a number of customers with runaway cars. They compounded their design mistake by blaming the whole problem on their customers. And they fixed their design mistake by correcting their design.</p>



<p>Do you know this for a fact?</p>

<p>I assume that they modified their pedal placement, perhaps for the
US market. But that's just an assumption.</p>



<p>Yes, they invented and added a feature (now standard on most cars of all makes) to make it so that it is impossible to put the automatic transmission into Drive without your foot on the brake pedal.</p>

<p>I have an FJ Cruiser (one of the first ones) and like it a lot. There are no recalls on it. I would NOT recommend it for a teen driver, though. There are some blind spots due to the large posts on the doors. The doors are strange- a clamshell set-up with the aforementioned blind spots. Other than that, great vehicle and I have enjoyed it. The first couple of days it feels like you are driving a Hummer, but it actually isn't any bigger than XTerra. I would recommend XTerra (Nissan) for your family.</p>



<p>There were six lawsuits against Audi from people that crashed their
cars. They were all unsuccessful. The footage of an Audi 5000 with the
accelerator moving down on its own was rigged. Independed
investigators, Audi, independent journalists, the National Highway
Traffic Safety Administration and Transport Canada attributed crashes
to driver error.</p>



<p>Every objective analysis shows that operator error was the cause of
the UI Audi crashes.</p>

<p>I've worked in high-level support and systems analysis and have worked
on software risk analysis in the past. I'm generally careful about
risks but the Audi case was pure driver error.</p>

<p>^But at least it was an easy fix. I'm not convinced that Toyota really has a handle yet on what's wrong with their cars. I wouldn't buy a new one right now. We drive old Toyotas and love them. (2004 Corolla, 2002 Siena).</p>