<p>And the study linked was sponsored by CB. I also wonder if simply taking AP, when available, is an indication, in itself.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How do you do it? The same way you do anything in life. You apply judgment to what’s in front of you. You’re never going to compare two situations, candidates, houses, whatever, that are EXACTLY the same except for one variable. Sometimes the kid with the 1 AP in the high school that only had 1 AP will be chosen over the kid with 5 of the 10 AP’s because his overall profile showed that he took full advantage of what he had and that was part of his overall story. Sometimes the kid with 5 of the 10 AP’s will be chosen because he in turn didn’t take the other 5 AP’s because he was off doing something else worthwhile. Why do you people seem to need a formula or to “always know” which of the two will prevail? Why can’t it be … some of the time they’ll favor this, some of the time they’ll favor that? What is so hard about the concept of … they want some of everything?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I would look at the number of AP exams passed with a score of 4 or 5 and subtract a penalty coefficient, say 1/2, times the number of AP exams offered. So a 5 on 2 exams where only 2 exams are offered would be equivalent to a 5 on 4 exams in a school offering 6 exams, since</p>
<p>2 - 2<em>0.5 = 4 - 6</em>0.5 = 1 . </p>
<p>The value of the penalty coefficient could be tuned so as to best predict college GPA.</p>
<p>Re: #783</p>
<p>However, schools which offer more AP courses/tests than a student can realistically take may penalize students under your formula. The same goes for schools that offer a lot of AP courses/tests but have policies limiting the number of them that a student can take.</p>
<p>Your system may also give students more of an incentive to load up on relatively worthless (for subject credit and placement in college) “AP lite” courses/tests at schools where many AP courses/tests are offered, even if those subjects are not ones which the student is most interested in or which the student will find helpful in preparing for his/her major in college. We already see students asking, “does it look better to take level 4 of foreign language or AP [lite]?” or “should I take the art class that I am really interested in, or AP [lite]?”. Do we want to encourage more of this?</p>
<p>I don’t detect wit, do I, Bel?</p>
<p>My former hs offers more than 20 APs. None offered by college profs. Some, as we’ve caught in prior talks, one semester.</p>
<p>Ucb, but your argument rests on…quality. We know that won’t fly, with many.</p>
<p>Maybe I need clarification here: if “whatever” predicts college GPA, what does college GPA predict?</p>
<p>How does it work if you admit only those students who can be predicted to get a high college GPA, Bel? Does it follow that if you admit only those students, then everyone will get a high college GPA - let’s say a 3.8? I thought you of all people would be in strong favor of curving at the college level. </p>
<p>Some issues with assigning arbitrary weights are:</p>
<ul>
<li>Some schools limit the years during which AP’s can be taken, or their policies change year to year</li>
<li>Some schools have AP’s by invitation only; others, anyone can sign up for</li>
<li>Some schools have schedule limitations which means that, for example, a junior has to choose between AP French and AP Biology, but cannot take both – you really want to penalize the kid when that’s not his fault?</li>
<li>In the continued “arts and humanities? huh, what are those?” subtext, it may very well be a better choice for a student to take a theatre or art or music class over shoving in another AP class – yet you’d penalize him / her for that choice
(I can certainly say for my son the history buff that it was far, far better for him to take additional advanced courses in history, politics and government than it would have been to have taken AP Chemistry which he has no interest in)</li>
</ul>
<p>You guys keep wanting to graft policies that would work if we had uniform K-12 classes and grading, and graft them onto a country which doesn’t have those things.</p>
<p>Moreover, you guys keep acting as though the point of education is regurgitating information back - that there’s a path to be followed, and success is found in how closely you hew to that path. Your cultural assumptions just don’t work here.</p>
<p>Nice post, Mom2twins.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I think that if some of the most selective schools switched to admissions based strictly on the numbers, many of the very best candidates would no longer want to go there.</p>
<p>I think people must know that subconsciously. Otherwise, they’d say, if they REALLY believe these schools are chockful of undeserving kids who got in “illegitimately,” they wouldn’t consider these schools desirable. Yet they have the interesting conundrum of thinking the student body sucks but it’s a great educational experience that you wouldn’t want to miss out on.</p>
<p>to Pizzagirl,</p>
<p>"Yet they have the interesting conundrum of thinking the student body sucks but it’s a great educational experience that you wouldn’t want to miss out on. "</p>
<p>My concern is exactly opposite. I am not sure which schools at top 50 are really good, and which ones are just well marketed. For example, many US Ivies are almost unknown abroad. CALTeh and MIT have great reputation abroad, but not in the US. Many top schools have names that I haven’t ever heard in my life. </p>
<p>SAT / GPA ranking really help to evaluate colleges. This is one of the reasons why I want transparency in admissions.</p>
<p>BTW, I don’t think that BS is a must. </p>
<p>If my D. won’t get into some top college, I’ll strongly advice her to go and work for some software company (yes, they do hire HS graduates, especially for game design). I personally don’t see much value in BS, unless it’s BS from the top place. (BTW, online education is great, helps to save time and money).</p>
<p>Re: AP classes.</p>
<p>University of California (all of them) counts a maximum of 8 AP classes towards GPA. Any reason to take more than 8 APs? (our school offers 26).</p>
<p>not quite, californiaa.</p>
<p>For purposes of admissions eligibility, the UC GPA is capped at 8 bonus points. Admissions readers will see all GPA’s, however, including weighted-capped, weighted-uncapped, and unweighted.</p>
<p>to bluebayou,</p>
<p>If more than 8 APs are taken, how do Adcoms decide, which ones are counted towards GPA, which ones are not?</p>
<p>For example, a student takes 10 AP classes. 8 AP classes are A, 2 AP classes are C.</p>
<p>Which AP class will go into GPA? The first 8 ones? The best ones? The worst ones? The most relevant to major (what if major is undecided?)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think these inputs can put colleges in a general ballpark, but that’s it. A student with thousands of dollars of tutoring and multiple retakes behind him who finally cracked 2300 is, to me, not that impressive. Nor is a kid who has a super-high GPA but hasn’t done anything interesting in four years of high school. </p>
<p>I prefer to look at outcomes for students–where they get into grad school (and at what rate), where they find jobs, what awards (Fulbright/Goldwater/Rhodes/etc.) they win (and as what percentage of student population). The degree means nothing if the kid isn’t better off and closer to his or her goals after graduation.</p>
<p>to bluebayou,</p>
<p>Sorry, I realized that my post #793 doesn’t make sense.</p>
<p>Where do you find information on</p>
<p>“outcomes for students–where they get into grad school (and at what rate), where they find jobs, what awards (Fulbright/Goldwater/Rhodes/etc.) they win (and as what percentage of student population).” </p>
<ul>
<li>where?</li>
</ul>
<p>Unfortunately, you kind of have to piece it together yourself.</p>
<p>Grad school: start with colleges you are interested in and see what is posted on their site. Then, do a sample of graduate programs (including law/med school if those are of interest) and see where their students came from as undergrads. </p>
<p>Jobs: this one is harder but most colleges post lists of companies/organizations their graduates have ended up.</p>
<p>Awards: choose your award and visit its website. Here are a couple:</p>
<p>[The</a> Watson Fellowship: Our Fellows](<a href=“watsonfellowship.org”>watsonfellowship.org)</p>
<p>[2013</a> Goldwater Scholars: Goldwater Scholarship Program](<a href=“http://www.act.org/goldwater/sch-2013.html]2013”>http://www.act.org/goldwater/sch-2013.html)</p>
<p><a href=“http://us.fulbrightonline.org/uploads/files/top_producing/2012-13/bachelors2012.pdf[/url]”>http://us.fulbrightonline.org/uploads/files/top_producing/2012-13/bachelors2012.pdf</a></p>
<p>I hope this is helpful. I think you will find it reassuring.</p>
<p>You have to google for the other Fulbright lists and you can see the “member institutions” re the Watson. </p>
<p>But the point is that this info, even the other standards on which any of us might evaluate a college, won’t come to you. You have to have some frame of reference, build some understanding- and then weigh. All while figuring out what will empower your kid, versus drown her or him. And, don’t assume the common media has your best interests in mind.</p>
<p>Californiaa, the USNews detailed data and the Common Data Sets provide SAT scores.</p>
<p>But really, there isn’t a single “bad” school among the top 50. There are some I prefer over others, but that’s personal preference and appeal. Why did you think there might be?</p>
<p>BTW, “what they know in Asia” means nothing. Their understanding of our colleges is based on familiarity and brand name versus actual knowledge. So don’t get sidetracked if you never heard of it.</p>
<p>lf: Agreed. For me, it was empowering to take the research into my own hands rather than trust either the questionable rankings of for-profit publications or the spin of college marketing materials. It took time but I learned a lot with my first child and will do some of the same things with my second.</p>