<p>And the ACLU disputes the officer’s authority to arrest or detain someone to get them to show ID, without a valid reason, which, they assert, the officer didn’t have. The officer insisted he had the right to get her to show ID. The ACLU says that he did not have that right, and he was merely trying to punish her.</p>
<p>Let me restate that: if the officer couldn’t arrest her for failing to show ID, then she wasn’t required to show ID. If she wasn’t required to show ID, then the officer had no justification for detaining her for failing to show ID, and he was merely harassing her.</p>
<p>My understanding is that reasonable suspicion gives then the right to ask for ID and refusal to comply gives them the right to detain until identification is made. But, people can argue this I suppose. However, I predict things are going to quiet down since the actress and the chef have announced that the public appearances are on hold until they meet with their advisors. The media tour did not go very well.</p>
<p>I agree that reasonable suspicion gives them the right to detain and ask for ID. The issue is whether a phone call and nothing else amounts to reasonable suspicion, when it’s a matter of a misdemeanor. </p>
<p>Here’s a rundown of the law and the ACLU’s recommendations for people who are asked for their ID.</p>
<p>Do you have to show an ID whenever an official asks for one?</p>
<p>No. In California, police cannot arrest someone merely for refusing to provide ID.</p>
<p>Police can always ask for identification, just like they can ask if you’ll step over and answer a few questions, or if they can search your bag or come into your house. But just because they can ask doesn’t mean you have to allow them to see your ID.</p>
<p>If you don’t want to provide identification, you can politely say you do not want to do so and ask if you are free to go.</p>
<p>If you are a suspect in a crime, do you have to show your identification?</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>If police reasonably suspect you of a crime, they can detain you to investigate that crime. Some states have what are called “Stop and Identify” statutes that require someone suspected of criminal activity to provide identification to police, making refusal a crime. California has no such statute, so if you refuse to provide an ID while police are detaining you, they can’t arrest you just for refusing. </p>
<p>The couple were fully clothed. Even if they were engaging in some kind of sex act, they seem to have been able to pull themselves together pretty quickly by the time the police arrived. There would have been NOTHING to be gained by the police detaining either person to “investigate.” This was a completely victimless crime, if it even was one.</p>
<p>There is just so much over-response among police over small incidents these days–jumping right to tasers, handcuffs, and forceful behavior. Yet you still hear about cases where days pass before a suspect is charged with more serious/violent crimes–because investigators are using that time to make sure they have enough evidence. It would have required very little effort on the part of the officer to take down the license plate of the car and then go back to the station to see if any actual witnesses came forward. The couple still could have been easily identified and arrested later on.</p>
<p>Well, if we buy the hooker story they would want to run a background check to see if she had a history of prostitution. That would be investigating. Of course, I don’t necessarily buy the hooker story at all and think it’s much more likely they would have ID’d her, found nothing, and told the couple to get a room next time and have a nice day. That’s what he meant when he said she put herself in handcuffs by pitching a fit. We have the fit on tape now. It was a fit. And, none of this is racial, anymore. </p>
<p>Flossy, did you not see Fang’s post? She was not required to show ID, * even though the cop asked for it*. He was not allowed to cuff her for not doing something she wasn’t required to do.</p>
<p>LasMa, she was not required to show ID but the police are allowed to detain her if she makes that choice according to them and a slew of legal experts. I think this has all been rendered irrelevant at this point, though. </p>
No, I WANT to believe that police officers treat white and black people the same. But I can’t. I’m always surprised that so many people seem able to do so.</p>
<p>By the way, and just to stir things up even more, if it had been a black man and a white woman, the police would probably say they were investigating a report of a potential sexual assault.</p>
<p>Do we really think white people in LA are never asked for identification during the investigation of a reported crime? Good grief. One was this time and there are records of this stuff so someone should check the police reports to find out if it has ever happened. The police are investigating the report that was reported. That’s on tape, too. And, now a witness took photos and others in the building were watching the couple. It happened.</p>
<p>Imagine if a cop was called to investigate lewd behavior in public, and did not get id, and it turns out one of people involved was a registered sex offender? Who later does commit a crime?
I bet the same people complaining about having to show id would be complaining about police negligence.</p>
<p>If I understand the facts correctly, Watts walked away and kept walking. Sgt Parker had already called for back-up from two other officers, including a female officer, so he radioed them to “bring her back.” They are the ones who put her in hand-cuffs and put her in the car and drove her back.</p>
No. But surely you understand that this is not what I am saying. Do we really think that police officers treat black and white people the same on average and in similar situations. I don’t.</p>
<p>Yeah, I get what you are saying and agree with a lot of what you are saying. The distinction is that I am not so concerned with averages. The individual case and the individual facts and how they emerge is what interests me. And, this one is a classic. Also, this one does not at all help those concerned with discriminatory policing. Even Charles Belk removed his DW link, yesterday.</p>
<p>They don’t. This has been proven time and time again in communities across the country. My local newspaper just the other day reported a study that examined drug arrests over 18 months. Even though blacks and whites use marijuana at the same rate, blacks are arrested TWELVE TIMES more often than whites. I could cite similar statistics from numerous other cities. And you won’t find even one where the reverse happens.</p>
<p>But this is the conundrum we face: the only cases (short of a killing) that we hear about are the ones involving famous people–and sometimes the famous person behaves as a famous person is likely to do: like a horse’s rear. This is what I thought about the Henry Louis Gates case–I thought he acted unreasonably. I still think that, but I’ve had second thoughts about the meaning of the case. He felt empowered to act that way–but a white person similarly situated would be much less likely to have been placed in the situation of confrontation with the police in that way. This is my opinion about this case as well–I just think that it’s highly likely that a police officer would have approached a white couple differently from the outset. I think he never would have gotten to the stage of asking for ID–he would have more politely addressed them, and would have less critically accepted their explanation of what was going on.</p>
<p>In the Gates case, Gates was essentially breaking into his own house because the lock was broken. A neighbor called the police, and the situation expanded into an ugly confrontation. If this happened to me, I would expect a police officer to fairly readily accept my explanation for why I was breaking down the door. He might ask me–politely–to prove that it was really my house. If he treated me rudely, I’d be quite angry–but also surprised. But it’s important to note that I have no experience of ever having been treated badly by the police–something that is not true of many (and maybe most) black people.</p>
<p>I would be very surprised if it wasn’t LAPD SOP to ask for ID every time an officer investigates a report of criminal activity. Not to do so seems like a dereliction of duty.</p>