I come from a family of refugees and immigrants. If you think that they could hoist the real estate on their back when they fled…. it doesn’t work that way. For many of them, the only things of value they had was their education and their drive to survive.
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We get to tell the OP anything we decide to when
A) they ask what you would do
B) they ask why and you use info they provided, which helped me come to the conclusion.
Please don’t tell me what I can and cannot tell someone. They asked for an opinion. I provided mine, using background they provided.
That it differs from yours doesn’t make it a bad opinion.
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Obviously I didn’t mean it literally. I meant that based on the facts OP has posted- TWO pensions, no debt, secure retirement, it is presumptuous to tell someone that selling an asset is off the table to finance a kid’s education.
We sold assets. That’s what they were for. That’s why we had them- to pay for college. Figuring out how to minimize the tax bite and avoid a sell-off during a market turndown was a little more time-consuming than we had expected, but since we have two MBA’s in the family, financial planning is not a foreign concept to us.
YMMV.
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Some people have 529 funds, others have other assets. Ultimately it’s all the same idea: you put money into something over the years, and now you’re liquidating it to pay for your kid’s education. Are there people who won’t - who would rather earn rent on a property than pay for their kid to go somewhere they really want to go - sure that’s up to them, but you don’t tell someone else what to do.
I remember years ago I worked with someone who drove a less flashy car and lived in a smaller house than some of his friends to send his kids to private school (the public schools where he lived were mediocre). He said to me how his so-called friends said that was a stupid choice - he could be driving a bmw instead of a Camry! But it’s the same choice ultimately as this, and they both make absolute sense to me.
And as you say, education is the one thing you can never lose. Economists understand that it’s an asset - human capital. Selling one asset to fund another - no problem there for me.
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And you are assuming one is more valuable than the other. I’m simply noting I don’t know how you would quantify this.
Education, is in many ways a commodity, as much as it is an asset. A Camry and BMW do the same thing - get you from A to B - but yes for some it brings joy on top of the utility of it.
But you are all assuming HC is a BMW and Gonzaga a Camry because US News says Gonzaga is #102 (and #17 for best undergrad teaching). Holy Cross is #27 - and yet you can’t compare LACs to the national list because there’s a lot fewer. There’s 436 national schools and 207 LACs ranked - and how do you compare the two - is #102 nationally necessarily that far off #27 LAC?
People choose lower rank schools every day of the week as mine did (not because of $$). For OP, this seems an ego thing and I get it - but I wouldn’t conflate a rank (and they’re not on the same ranking scale so you can’t compare anyway) with better. Right above Gonzaga in the rankings they are using is Fordham, TCU and Colorado. Tied is Auburn and LMU. Right below is St. Louis and San Diego….all very good schools that kids any day of the week might pick over either of these two.
I think using a US News rank is silly in that sense - but I wouldn’t preclude HC is ranked superior - it comes from a smaller set of schools that doesn’t have as much depth in the category. And I can’t find any in major ranking that lists either school.
Best of luck for OP. Yes, I look at things financially and the future (beyond undergrad) and ROI - and I just don’t see it. Doesn’t mean OP can’t choose it - but I believe it would be for both ego and wanting to continue the relationship with the school vs looking at it objectively because it won’t, on its own, help with law school (but a great GPA and LSAT will) and we don’t know the career data - or what the student would want to do in life if not law school (which likely impacts the salary data more than anything).
Best of luck to them.
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@tsbna44 I am more ROI than many others on CC. I know you are as well. But, based upon your advice, it is starting to seem you like you think the lowest priced education is the best education. I know each of these schools intimately. I have been to each more than 1x and have had each as clients over the years. My question to you is what is it about Gonzaga, besides it being less money, that makes it a better education?
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There may well be things beyond rank that could make HC a preferred school – ex. size, location, vibe/fit, family connections, etc.
I agree with those who say the OP has earned the right to spend their assets as they see fit. Also agree that if grad school is in the future, that should be part of the decision as well.
Every family is different, every situation is different.
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I don’t dispute anyone’s right to spend money. And I agree - my kids both chose safeties over perceived reaches for campus type, dorm room type, etc.
OP asked this and put financials into their story - so I don’t know why everyone keeps piling on that my answer is wrong. And they also added law school is to come.
It’s another thing for OP to think about.
The real question is - why does OP prefer HC and they can for any reason - but if it’s for ego (it’s ranked #27 while I didn’t get into 102’s Honors Program) or mom went there - well, over four years, day after day, that doesn’t necessarily make it a better fit.
Given HC’s financial aid profile, I have no doubt, that maybe as important as academics - is the family’s financial aid profile - i.e. they want families like this willing to make that $90K+ sacrifice.
To each their own, I never said otherwise - but just answered the question asked.
I may live in MA, but I do not live in Worcester. I do like gritty cities more than most people, but I am not sure that matters much. Holy Cross has always had a very good national reputation. Gonzaga, to most people, is a school they only know because it was in their March Madness bracket.
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And the “R” in ROI encompasses more than just earnings when it comes to college choice.
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tell me more
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For a start, a happy kid for 4 years. Peers, network, industry connections etc. I don’t know anything about these 2 schools specifically (well, unless you count what Kurt Cobain said about Spokane) but you get a lot more out of a college education than just earnings potential. Otherwise, you may as well as just stay at home and get your degree through ASU online.
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I am not sure I said differently, and agree directionally anyway.
I didn’t say you said differently. I was just pointing out that people who view college costs through the narrow lens of “what does x major at y university earn” are missing out on the full picture.
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Disagree - even today if you asked people what state it was in, they wouldn’t know - but its profile has grown.
Everyone knows Gonzaga - yes, because of hoops and that attracts kids - smart, wealthy and more - no different than Georgetown, Syracuse and Villanova of yesteryear.
I’m sure HC is a great school - I would not agree it’s rep (by most) is known nationally but it’s getting there trying to shed its rich kid profile a bit (Questbridge).
The school is very geographically limited - no different than many privates - like a Fairfield etc. It says 38% from MA but doesn’t list the others. If you believe college factual (which shows 43% from MA), the next are NY, CT, NJ, NH with then close and far states in much lower #s. I’m sure it’s similar at Gonzaga - but I don’t agree with the national rep. It has a very good rep, especially on this website. But nationally well known - I don’t think so. But better than in past years - but the same could be said for Gonzaga.
OP has a lot to noodle on - if they even wanted to. Perhaps they just wanted to vent a bit, etc.
Good luck to them.
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Please look carefully at the federally funded loan options for law school. They are now limited to $200,000 in total (including any federally funded loans for undergrad school). So…who will co-sign private loans for the remaining costs for law school? Just an added thing to think about.
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What makes Holy Cross better? After seeing what a Wharton kid goes through and what others say, I don’t conflate rank (if it’s even better) with rigor. I saw the rigor afforded both my kids who chose lower ranked schools.
I look at each situation independently. I don’t see any school giving a lift vs another for law school - and I see a $300k figure expense that the parents aren’t in for - so the option of law school essentially becomes moot or near moot short of a lower ranked law school buying a student in - and it happens.
That’s what I see. One keeps law school open. One likely closes the window.
If law school doesn’t happen and we don’t know the career goal outside of law school (likely unknown at 17) but likely lower paid with a philosophy degree no matter the school.
No one can truly say but my guess is it’s the likelihood and why schools like HC don’t provide by major career outcomes vs an aggregate stat.
So my assessment is financial but not because one is half the cost. But one where lower cost can assuredly get them to the desired outcome where the other is unlikely to.
Frankly, HC should never have been in play bcuz I’m guessing the family wasn’t applying to other $90k schools but did this because of the alum connection. If they weren’t an alum, would it have even made the list ?
Several posts deleted. Further posts need to address the OP, not continue a debate with other users. Any further posts that don’t comply will be deleted without comment, with the offender(s) receiving a lovely note from me.
And to be clear, to quote skimom, I’m not asking.
And the ignore function is a great tool for those users who always seem to like to debate each other.
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Another question to consider: if D26 chooses less expensive, would you contribute to any professional (e.g. law) school costs for D26? If so, would you make the same offer to D30?
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Two quick notes as I saw with HC and the strength of the Philosophy department. I could not find it in any rank (doesn’t mean it’s not strong) except Niche at #77. I could not find Gonzaga at all.
It looks like HC has 17 faculty - a lot - but Gonzaga has 28 faculty that I counted.
Finally, not sure if you saw this, but given the law school interest, this may be of interest to your student, which brings budget and time savings.