My fingers are crossed for some UC acceptances for OP’s student, because it seems they prefer them to HC anyway. Preferred + less expensive = big win.
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OP- one final thought. As you can see, there are distinct camps and voices on CC (as there are in real life). There are those who feel that full pay is never worth it, even if you can afford it, unless it is not a real financial burden. And then the “if you can afford it, it’s worth considering” crowd generally does NOT care about most of those things- they are looking for academic rigor, a campus climate which prioritizes intellectual and artistic pursuits over sports or social life, the ability to switch majors easily as a students interests morph, depth in “non-vocational majors” such as Classics, Philosophy, etc. (the kind of fields that the Jesuit/Catholic colleges do so well).
So I’ll ask the only question still on the table– do you and your spouse have adequate life insurance? If the answer is yes– then good luck with your decision. And if not- that is more important than any other financial decision you will need to make this month, especially with a younger sibling.
Peace!
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Congratulations to your daughter’s acceptance to Holy Cross. Well done! With all the exceptional colleges and universities in MA, HC continues to be a well respected and desirable college with lots of interest from top students. Not an easy admit.
To answer your query about the worth of a Holy Cross education - I think you, @evanescent471 are a prime example of just that. HC educated, PhD from UNC-CH and doing exceedingly well on many fronts. You’ve financially prepared for this and you know the rigor and demands of the college as well as the reputation and strength of the alumni network. I would not overthink, see what UCSD offers and then go with your gut. (Btw, I disagree with going with the cheapest option if finances are all set).
The opportunities our kids have taken advantage of at HC have been impactful- there is little handholding, so the student has to seek opportunities out by engaging with professors and taking advantage of departments set up to do just that. One huge plus has been the Ciocca Center for Business, Ethics and Society which offers business certificate programs (business fundamentals, finance and banking, entrepreneurship). The program is offered to any major and has been very popular (coursework and requirements are taken over breaks and require experiential learning, job shadowing, workshops, internship, etc. Pretty intense). Not something that was immediately on our students radar as a potential pre-law student, but has been an excellent addition to their humanities based major. I see so many opportunities available to students, and if they change their major, the opportunities and guidance are there for the asking.
Best of luck on your decision making. And GoCrossGo!
Ps- There are many great schools and your student will shine wherever they land if they have the chops for HC. I don’t know enough about Gonzaga to add relevant commentary.
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Highlighting the comment about change in federal loans for professional school – that $200k total federal loan cap will likely have a big impact on many students’ law school decisions going forward. While financially stable families can turn to private lenders to make up the difference, keep in mind that private loans are not eligible for loan forgiveness under various public interest/low income protection programs. So if someone is thinking about a public interest legal career, the cap on federal loans can have a real impact down the road.
Also, law schools generally do not do need-based aid, it is all merit aid based on gpa and LSAT scores (except for a small number of top law schools, Harvard, Yale, which also continue to consider parental contributions for a student up to almost age 30). So someone contemplating law school down the road should not think they will get need-based aid as that is not how the model works.
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This was a helpful perspective to read.
Thank you for the many helpful perspectives here (sorry for the delay in responding). I suppose that we are really on hold until tomorrow afternoon at about 4, when D26 hears from UCSD. It’s a tough call; the portal astrology favors her admission but I have no idea how or why this would work.
But I’m currently processing all of the pros and cons of our options so far. I didn’t mention that we have the first year of tuition at HC covered in a 529; the remainder would be cash-flowed and the possible aforementioned sale of our mountain cabin, which is in a fire-prone area and which we haven’t been able to visit much in the past couple of years.
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Hope the UC decisions go her way.
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You were wise to point this out. I hope that she appreciates how difficult it is going to be to fund three years of law school if parents are not helping quite a bit. I honestly do not even know whether or not this will be possible for a young student (and whether it is possible at all might change between now versus four or five years from now).
Again very wise. We did the same thing. We only promised to pay for our older daughter what we knew we could afford to also spend again for our younger daughter.
One daughter attended a university that was close to this size. In her case it turned out to be a very good fit. Classes were small enough that she got to know her professors. The school was big enough that she found very good research opportunities, and all of the classes and majors that she wanted. Of course a still larger school is likely to have a still larger range of classes and majors.
At least in our family we have several who attended universities ranked a bit lower than 100 who then got a graduate degree or two at very highly ranked schools (eg, Ivy League or “top 5”). I really would not worry at all about attending a college or university ranked anywhere around about 100. There will be plenty of very strong students and very good professors. It might be slightly easier to get in the top 1/2 of the class compared to attending a school ranked in the top 20 in the US, but being in the top 1/2 of the class is a very good idea for anyone who intends to go on to law school.
One daughter did get admitted to the honors program for a school ranked only a bit lower than 100. After two years she dropped it because she felt that it was not offering anything that she wanted. Then she got her doctorate from a very good program. Getting into the honors college really is not all that important.
And this does suggest that even at Gonzaga there will be at least 10% of the student body (probably a lot more) who are academically competitive with your daughter and with any other strong student. She will find peers.
You will have to wait a day and see what happens. Best wishes. This also sounds like a very good choice (even if not quite the same). If a student lives on campus 30 minutes from home, they might as well be in a completely different world. Then when (not if) something goes wrong help can be nearby. I do recall a “semi emergency” drive to school. Unfortunately for me it was a bit more than 30 minutes to get there.
I would save some money for law school.
By the way, we did save some money for graduate school. Quite a few years ago a high school senior was rather frustrated by this (two schools were not affordable). Four years later a recent university graduate was very happy to have a bachelor’s degree with no debt and be able to take a dream job that paid badly and still support herself. Now many years later the same daughter is very happy to have her doctorate without any seriously large crippling debt (which many in her doctorate graduating class did take on).
No one should assume that 7 or 8 years from now a newly graduated lawyer is going to make enough money to make it easy to deal with a large debt load.
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First off, congratulations to your D on two great acceptances, and maybe three!
Below are my thoughts on some of what’s been shared already on this thread that I feel could use some extra emphasis:
Yes! Thank you so much for thinking about this and planning for it.
VERY important question that your family needs to think about. And I will add, not just life insurance, but an updated will? As in, whether there’s a trustee until the kids hit a certain age for the financial pieces and we want X assets sold to pay for Y educational costs, etc. Or are your kids expected to handle everything should you and your spouse unexpectedly pass away together?
Also, thirding @thumper1 and @Midwestmomofboys’s point about the federal loan limitations for law school, inability to have loan forgiveness for public interest work, etc.
I think for people who live in the northeast, or in certain major coastal metros outside of that, people would be surprised at how few colleges are nationally known. Even though I have had an interest in colleges for decades, Holy Cross (MA) was a new name for me when I first joined CC. And the same goes for a lot of other “elite” colleges. [ETA: For clarity, a lot of other “elite” colleges are not nationally known, IME, not that I hadn’t heard of other “elite” colleges prior to coming on CC.] If it’s not a SHYMP school or playing sports on a national tv, then odds are, they haven’t heard of it. That’s not to say that students from these schools won’t do well in other parts of the country, but they’re unlikely to get an interview or even a second look at their application because a reviewer sees the college’s name on their resume.
So, on with my own thoughts:
- Has your D spent any significant amount of time in an area that is not sunny for a good chunk of the year? Any potential signs of Seasonal Affective Disorder? I realize it might be very hard to tell if she’s spent her life in the San Diego metro area, but it’s something I would at least think about.
- San Diego: about 266 sunny days per year
- U.S. average: about 207 sunny days per year
- Worcester: about 197 sunny days per year
- Spokane: about 171 sunny days per year
- Seattle: about 152 sunny days per year
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What is it that your D wants from her college experience? I’d have her enumerate what are the things that are truly important to her and rank each school on those criteria. Then see where the schools land. And perhaps she’ll have criteria that you don’t feel inclined to pay for (say, ensuring that there’s a boba tea place within a half-mile of campus). So you can also then take those particular criteria out and see if the school rankings remain in the same order. Although people can like schools of very varying types, the fact that UCSD/UCB/UCLA would all trump HC and Gonzaga makes me wonder what is it about them that makes them so much better for your D than the Jesuit options?
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I would echo @beefeater’s suggestion to put the cost differential in terms that are easier for her to understand. Do you like School X so much more that it’s worth foregoing Y to attend, or would you rather get Y and attend School Z? (Y, and its variations, could be anything that your family would be willing to pay for if you spent less on undergrad. So that could be grad school, or a house down payment, or a car, or supplementing life in a HCOL area. But obviously Y should only be for things that your family would pay for. Some families just believe in paying for undergrad no matter how much it is, and then everything else is off the table, regardless of whether they spent $4, $40k, or $400k on it.)
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I actually had a friend growing up whose parents bought real estate when each kid was born (rental properties in a low COL area) and sold them to pay for each kid’s college when time came - it actually worked out perfectly from what I saw.. bviously not always sensible and depends on markets etc etc but that was their (somewhat unusual) saving plans way back when - I sure didn’t run their numbers and couldn’t replicate them 50 years later, but parents were smart and are living very well in retirement and never had crazy well paying jobs!
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like 60% (or something like that) of all top private school parents disagree, right? like most people at most Ivys and top privates are full pay.
Now, MANY people think they are nuts, of course. And many of them are so wealthy they don’t even notice the cost, but plenty do!
As long as you are sure you can safely have enoguh for retirement and pay for your other kids undergrad…that is good.
Law school is a discussion to have with your kid. I think you should seriously consider the value of HC vs. no money for law school.
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Lots of people know HC’s famous alums like Clarance Thomas and Fauci. There are only 28 Jesuit colleges in the US and it has always been in the top 3-5. Admittedly, knowing colleges is something I do for a living so I may not be completely objective on what the average person knows.
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What the average person knows about very little, thus these conversations are important to have here on CC. I fully understand the original posters desire to have her kid attend her alma mater. Some here have suggested it’s a nothing issue and any school will suffice, when she has direct personal experience that she believes would benefit her student. I hope the day brings clarity and the financials will be worked out to their satisfaction.
As far as name brand recognition, Holy Cross could use more marketing, but its core mission of excellence that benefits others first, has stood the test of time for 180 years. It doesn’t brag and boast but it’s a very well established and respected academic institution with depth of intellectual excellence. Regionally and nationally. There’s a long list of impactful alumni that include politicians (Bob Casey ‘82,D-PA, Peter Welch "‘62, D-VT) among other representatives, President Obamas’ speech writer, Jon Favreau ‘03 (HC humanities and communication skills shine on the world stage), lots of medical super stars, including Nobel Prize winner Joseph Murray ‘40, Helen Boucher ‘86 Dean of Tufts Medical School, Steven Stack ‘94 American Medical Association President, and lots of other MD/DO’s, including a pediatric cardiologist who helped our family. The same tertiary care trauma center hospital my spouse works at has numerous HC medical professionals working in different departments. Lawyers, and business alum all scattered all over the country that may not be household names to the common person but hugely influential nonetheless. Sports, well, we have a couple of current NFL players (Kalif Raymond/Detroit Lions, Jalen Coker/Panthers) and who can forget the Celtics basketball giants, Bob Cousy ‘50 and Tom Heinsohn. The Holy Cross women’s basketball team is playing in March Madness today against Michigan (will probably lose, but what a great performance to get to the NCAA tournament). So while Supreme Court justice Clarence Thomas is a graduate, the college celebrates and gives huge accolades to Anthony Fauci ‘62. He is whom they honor by naming the new Integrated Science Complex after (beautiful state of the art, energy efficient science complex built in-between and connecting two historic building on campus. Embracing history and looking forward to the future with cutting edge facilities for tomorrow’s scientists). Performing arts, well Emmy winning Handmaids Tale actor, Ann Dowd ‘78 is coming to talk on campus next month with Margaret Atwood about the state of women’s rights- talk about timely! The Prior Performance Art Center is a spectacular center for all kinds of performance art and cultural learning. I can attest the business and finance sector is well represented by HC alum, JD Power, JetBlue CEO Joanna Kelly’94, Rich Carr “89 etc etc.
I’m going off tangent, but point being when college decisions come up, there’s usually a lot more that goes into the decision than what current culture, arbitrary rankings and opinion polls tell us. History and reputation truly matters. Those that know, know.
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To clarify, just because I don’t think that Holy Cross has substantial national name recognition does not mean that I don’t think it provides an excellent education.
A classmate in high school ended up going to Swarthmore and felt the need to give info about the school because most people didn’t know anything about it (though I did). Although that was decades ago, Swarthmore’s name has been well known in various circles for far longer. More recently (in the last 3-5 years), another person living in a different large, major metro felt the need to talk about what kind of a school Swarthmore is, because it didn’t have much recognition where they were living. Just because Swarthmore’s name recognition (and substitute whichever fine college you want in its place) isn’t the kind of school where name-dropping it will bowl over college-educated folk in large swaths of the country doesn’t mean it’s not a great place to learn and a spot where many families are willing to spend significant sums of money for their children to attend.
Feel free to think of it as “quiet luxury” or “IYKYK” or whatever makes more sense, but if part of the reason for selecting a particular school is because one thinks it will result in greater name recognition/acknowledgment/admiration from others, then I just want to interject the idea that Holy Cross’s name (and the vast majority of other schools in the U.S., including those with admit rates below 20%) aren’t likely to get it from the majority in the U.S. Some people don’t care whether their school has a certain “recognition” or cachet while others do. Depending on what OP’s D interpretation of “rank” is, I thought this was a point to raise.
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I suspect the average person definitely has no idea what holy cross is - but they also couldn’t name more than 2 ivy league schools reliably either I don’t think (maybe Harvard Yale?). Having gone to one of the more obscure ones I can testify to this - many people have no idea what it is..more so in last 15 years than 30 years ago admittedly and certainly not outside of northeast or major metro areas.
However, does that matter? That sounds snooty, but you only need the hiring manager at the law firm to know. (if want to be a lawyer) or the AO or whatever…
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agree on that!
so many great places to go to school, and many without the biggest brands.
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And this is NO shade at Holy Cross (don’t think I was) it is a FANTASTIC school, but don’t think it has huge name recognition. It is a “if you know, you know” kind of place IMO.
I have taken extensive notes on your points 1, 2, and 3 and plan to present them to D26 sometime this weekend. Thank you for your thoughtful insights 
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I agree with you completely.
This is College Confidential- people come here to learn about colleges that aren’t everyday names. That was the point of my post about prominent HC alums.
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Alrighty then, let’s move on from HC name recognition
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I’ve been reading this thread with interest both because I have a S26 future philosophy and math major who will attend Wesleyan as a full pay student (and who does not have law school ambitions as of yet but does have grad school ambitions) and because my older D22 chose a UC school (we are in state).
I believe so many aspects of various opinions here to be true (that a good education can be found at many places, that going into a lot debt to pay for a particular school is generally a bad idea, that a HC offers something to this family that may well be worth their investment for many reasons).
What I can offer is only anecdotal so take it for what it is. My D22 chose UCLA over Smith (fully pay). What she’s received at UCLA is different than what I’d imagined it would be for her going in, but I’m very pleased. She has learned to be very independent, she has learned to hustle and compete, she has found a rich social life she very much needed after her Covid high school experience in our rather snooty Bay Area town. Her education has been engaging and satisfying, but then, she was always going to nail the academics, because that’s who she was in high school. She’s chosen a career path that is not lucrative and it’s hard to break into, but UCLA has taught her to compete and to persist. I’d argue that those skills are just important as the classroom ones. Of course, paying for it has been a dream for us. We have been able to travel with her on spring breaks, she has studied abroad and taken unpaid internships because we aren’t fussed about supporting her while she pursues her dream career.
For S26, who is a very different kid, Wesleyan’s artsy and open curriculum is truly exciting to him. He wants to pursue both math and philosophy (and Wesleyan offers a tuition-free 5th year masters in math) and fine art. He likes being known by his professors and his tight knit community (whereas my D22 has always been more independent and less interested in those relationships). Paying for it will obviously be a heavier lift for us. We have 2 years saved in a 529 and will save additional years as we go, and we get yearly bonuses that cover the cost of attendance, so we feel confident we can handle it.
I say all of this because maybe it will give you insight into what it has been like for D22 and us at a UC and what it might be like for your family if she chooses a UC. You obviously know what you received at Holy Cross, and that you’re considering it strongly for your D26 tells me you believe it’s worth the investment for your family. Does it mean that you might make sacrifices you wouldn’t have to make if she chose a UC? Sure. But we all decide how we spend our money and we can’t take it with us, so using it in a way that aligns with our values is the next best thing Good luck with the decisions today!!
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