<p>you can’t compare Cuban immigrants in Miami with, for instance, those poor immigrants working at Harvard.
No one arrives with nothing and buys a business. It’s a process, and one often moved along by family, extended family and community.
Cuban first wave was often educated and well off. The Cuban community is large, political, vocal and active. The new immigrants come into a thriving community with friends, relatives, church members to help.
I do not know about Cubans but I know some immigrant groups around here form business partnerships…a number of older established men will set up a new immigrant in a business.
My neighborhood is filled with new immigrants who are now homeowners. They’re working maniacs. Many have poor English skills, but great business skills. They also have access to a big pool of low wage workers.
Of course in front of every hardware store and paint store are the lines on young men looking for day work. No family, no support system, no time to learn English.
To me it seems that looking at the various groups is like comparing the families here, suburban, urban kids, rural kids. It’s like comparing a broken family system with a small healthy family, and then with a healthy extended family set up to help all members.</p>
<p>Barrons:</p>
<p>Agree. The kids learn English. But homeownership is out of reach for their parents.
I know some immigrants who get jobs at work centers. They get jobs peeling vegetables or on construction sites. The job changes from day to day, depending on demand.</p>
<p>The weird thing is, some people do seem to arrive with nothing and found businesses and buy houses. I’ve been doing some architectural work with Hispanics in our town. So far I’ve observed - a willingness to be more crowded (they periodically get in trouble for this one), buying buildings with partners in parts of town that are historically immigrant neighborhoods and putting the whole family to work. I also remember reading about buying clubs in NY - sort of informal extended networks that put together cash for down payments - and wonder if that is happening here as well. I know I was told once that most of the Mexicans in our town all come from the same village in Mexico. The Mayor of our town many years ago (before my time I believe) had a Mexican gardener who sponsored everyone else.</p>
<p>Re the immigrants, two things that strike me about them - they seem to have an incredible work ethic; probably more importantly, they seem to have just amazing positive, happy outlooks on life. Perhaps that’s because compared to where they came from, as well as what they had to do to get here, every day is a wonderous gift full of opportunity. One thing is certain - I cannot ever recall seeing any of them grumbling about their circumstances or hoping some magical government comes along and makes things better. Probably this also relates back to their origins - if your perspective is a dictatorship, perhaps any other form of government is an improvement. They seem to see opportunities and possibilities in even the most serious of situations, and they seem to be happy all the time. </p>
<p>Watching them, it’s impossible to fail to conclude that mental attitude combined with self reliance is a huge contributor to success. They’re endlessly interesting and inspiring to observe. I’m imagining that if they heard Frank’s comments, they would probably just burst out laughing, waste no more mind space considering anything the man said, and go on to the next productive adventure.</p>
<p>Although I have been a longtime proponent of home ownership, I wonder if it is a good idea at certain income levels.</p>
<p>In the same vein, after a series of VERY expensive car repairs, I wonder if I would be better off leasing a series of new, economy cars vs. keeping my older ones on the road.</p>
<p>And last week, I got a quote on fixing a thermostat on my oven and the hinge on my refrigerator. $400. If I was low-income, maybe renting an apartment would be more predictible, as these expenses would be taken care of.</p>
<p>In other words, as repair expenses go through the roof, could renting be a better deal for some? (cars OR houses)</p>
<p>People often assume that home ownership rates of return over a long period of time are bigger than they are. In most cases (especially if repairs etc are included) the actual rate of return is a bit above the rate of inflation in many locations. Certainly in some markets and in specifc time frames there are higher. Home ownership in general over time has a lower return than the stock market.(in other words renting and invstin might yield an overal better fiancial result. The current low interest rates, low tax rates and high standard deduction make the tax breaks for home ownership less valuable than in the past. As many have posted owning is a good thing for many other reasons than financial ones.</p>
<p>I was thinking about this thread this morning as I listened to a news item about AllState Insurance deciding to stop insurance coverage for about 2,000 New Orleans residents who were up-to-date with their home insurance payments because some drive-by inspection had suggested that the houses, damaged by Katrina, were unoccupied.</p>
<p>Thinking about it further, it really boils down to two choices:</p>
<p>Rent = buy someone else’s property for them; basically give them a gift of real estate or at least contribute to their holdings;</p>
<p>Buy = buy your own property for yourself, contribute to your own holdings, and have something to sell later, trade up, bequeath to your heirs, etc.</p>
<p>Rent or buy, you still have to write someone a check every month. Why not write it to a mortgage company, vs. to some landlord?</p>
<p>As to return on investment, what’s the return on investment for renting? The argument of investing money vs. buying a home doesn’t really pencil, because - again - you still have to write a check for housing, every month.</p>
<p>The rent versus buy compares investing your down payment and takes into account your property tax ,repairs etc. and any other costs that are related to each decision- just like buy versus lease for a car.</p>
<p>LTS:</p>
<p>You are correct, on the whole. But many renters do not have the cash for a down payment. If they are of very modest means, they probably bought a house that needs repairing. They’re on their own paying for the plumber if pipes freeze, fixing leaky roofs, etc… When we sold our previous home at a loss, basically, we lost our down payment and a chunk of the money we’d used for repairs. We could have used that money and invested it in the market: interest rates were very high then, compared to now.</p>
<p>Jaybee, consider the time factor though. Unlike money, which - even those of us lacking formal education can always find ways to generate more and earn more - time is not a renewable resource. </p>
<p>I have been renting daughter’s residence(s) in her college city for three years now. There have been numerous repair events. Since she has a schedule that begins at 5:00 a.m. and ends at midnight x six days (athlete/job/classes/ECs), I have been the primary contact with the landlord(s). It takes an incredible amount of time to call the landlord, report a problem, obtain a solution, and do follow up. Comparatively, in my house, I have my contact list of electrical, plumbing, ac, roofing, siding, painting, landscaping etc. contractors. These are very solid relationships that have been cultivated over the years; I know how they all work, and I know what to expect. I have a problem, one telephone call is all it takes. I would estimate it takes three to five times as much time to get maintenance through a landlord as it does to do so at the home I own. </p>
<p>We are having and air conditioning problem at the new house we just rented. In spite of multiple email, telephone calls, and discussions with this very well educated landlord (professor of architecture), the problem is no closer to resolution. We have been unable to convince him that it is not working properly. Of course, I know exactly what is wrong with it, and I know what needs to be done to fix it. But I am going to have to now wait until he returns from spring break to continue trying to “sell” him on what has to happen. And I have no authority to call a contractor and solve it myself. At my house, this would be one telephone call and no more than five minutes of my time. At this rental house, it’s now up to five telephone calls and no resolution is clear. And since time is money, this is becoming a very expensive proposition.</p>
<p>LTS:</p>
<p>That’s because you are the one handling things for your D. I bet her time is less valuable than yours in purely monetary terms.<br>
When our pipes froze, we forked out $275 for the plumber, H stayed home for most of the day. We’ve spent several thousands dollars having the roof repaired (it leaked) a whole lot more to have the house repainted (several times now); and we are contemplating several thousand dollars more in repairs. And this is on top of the repairs and renovations when we first moved in.</p>
<p>Marite, why are you having to paint so many times - did the first time not go well? I have spent a lot too - thousands for a new roof, brand new siding, brand new central ac system, new hot water heater, new landscaping, expert arborist services, etc. I painted most of the inside myself, but, made rather a mess of it in some of the rooms that have vaulted ceilings, and had to have someone who knew what they were doing come fix the mess. Oh, and I almost killed myself using an oil-based primer without proper ventilation. But, the house is almost paid off. And since I bought the very best materials (roof has 30 year warranty for example, and I paid extra for fire proof lumber), I expect the upfront cash to pay off. In a few years it will be possible to live in that house with no bills except utilities, which are very low owing to how I had so many things redone properly. </p>
<p>Barrons, re condos, I could not agree more, ick, yuck. We went to see some a few months ago in a building in Miami that is in very high demand and that supposedly has won a lot of awards for architecture. They’re listed at around $750,000 or so - anyway, we went to see one, and my first impression was YUCK. Very poor, uncomfortable design in my opinion. Made me think of human warehouses. The views were beautiful, but, I cannot see paying a ton of money just to be able to look out over the water. And the realtor was very, very high pressure - kept pressuring me relentlessly to make an offer, sign a contract, hurry up before they’re gone, which of course turned me off cold. This was a highrise - I’m not a fan of them anyway because how do you deal with living on the 37th floor when there’s a hurricane and no power for weeks? </p>
<p>By asking around we discovered later that the parking situation is untenable. It turns out that the tenant parking garage - which we did not tour (because why would you bother?) has no actual ramps. To save space, the designers had it built with parking garage elevators for cars. Tenants are not actually allowed to park their own cars for insurance reasons - what happens is tenants have to use the valet, and the valet in turn uses the car elevators to put the cars wherever there’s room. The net of all this is that on weekday mornings when everyone is trying to go to work, there is a 45 minute wait for the valet to retrieve everyone’s cars. And on weekends, coming back with groceries is evidently a real nightmare - basically the only way to do it is get out in the main driveway with all of your groceries, and find some way to hall them all up on the elevator while the valet parks your car. Street parking isn’t an option (no space and too dangerous anyway), and, there is no user-friendly, reliable public transportation in Miami. </p>
<p>Obviously, since we tend to run in and out at a moment’s notice all hours of the day and night, this would never, ever work for us. We also learned that the valet staff routinely steal change, etc. out of the cars, and that they lose keys, etc. We learned of a new buyer who lived in his condo for <30 days, and moved out, sold at a huge loss, he found the quality of life completely unacceptable.</p>
<p>Clapboard houses–very common in NE–should be painted every 5 years or so. Wooden porches should be repainted more often. </p>
<p>My larger point is that low income people usually do not have the cash to handle repairs, yet they are even more likely than we to have houses in need of fixing.</p>
<p><a href=“Top News, Latest headlines, Latest News, World News & U.S News - UPI.com”>Top News, Latest headlines, Latest News, World News & U.S News - UPI.com;
<p>I think they are more do it yourselfers–like our parents and grandparents. I could count the number of times my parents brought in people for repairs over 20 years on one hand. New roof, add storms, change from coal to oil furnace, remodel kitchen, add shower (what a luxury). That was it. I spent a summer painting the exterior around age 15. And it was hardly a new house when they bought it.</p>
<p>barrons:</p>
<p>Agreed. But we’re talking here about low-income people, those who fall prey to subprime lenders, not homeowners of fairly modest means who can still afford to go to Home Depot and buy the materials. I’m assuming that the latter kind are able to get mortgages from mainstream banks and mortgage companies.</p>
<p>Who said they go to Home Depot? There are lots of materials at construction sites and I am sure there is a little “shrinkage” from time to time, stuff that arrives a little damaged but usable , leftover stock, etc. Use a little imagination, poor folks can be creative too.
I’ll give a little example from my childhood. Afrer the Army my dad worked collecting and disposing of the trash at a printing shop. Some of that included metal and copper plates attached to wood blocks used for printing back in the day. He would separate out the metal containing items and bring them home. We would separate the metal from the wood blocks and take it to a metal salvage place that paid by the pound for the stuff. My dad might make $50 in a month from that stuff which was good extra $$$ back in the 50’s–you could feed a family of 5 on that for a couple of weeks. So was he stealing or just “creative” in disposing of the trash?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, what’s the answer?</p>
<p>I’ll go with creative as the company did not want the stuff and it was disposed of properly as in not dumped along the road somewhere. We actually used the wood bits in our fireplace. We were recycling before it was cool ;-)</p>
<p>Just got the good-bad news on the rental houses. Assessed values up 20% in one year. Hope the mil rate goes down by a similar amount but I won’t be holding my breath for that.</p>
<p>We have several pieces in the rental house that my daughter retrieved out of various garbage piles - the dining room set and chairs, the patio set, and two small, decorative tables.</p>
<p>To furnish the rental house, which is huge, we took the oldest car we could borrow, we dressed down significantly - the oldest jeans, cheapest old t-shirts we had, etc., wore no makeup or jewelry, and drove to a very scary area of town. I stopped at the bank on the way and got cash in small bills, which I separated into various pockets etc. so I was never exposing more than $50 at any one time. We bought a very attractive solid wood bedroom set (I love this bedroom set - it’s way soooo cool), living room chairs, another desk, two leather chairs in stunning condition, two lamps, three mirrors, a solid wood bookcase, and some other stuff, I spend <$200, then paid some guy in a truck $50 delivery. Downside is we did have to spend like three hours cleaning everything thoroughly but I reasoned it was good exercise. We lucked out on the dresser - went through the drawers and found a brand new sewing kit with every color of thread imaginable, and a jewelry box containing dozens of pair of earings, necklaces, etc. (we’re researching possible sterilization options to see if we might be able to use any of it).</p>
<p>I would have purchased my platform bed and mattress used, but, after reading ads on craigslist.com that said things like “used by a 40 year old virgin” or “my dog only peed on it one time and we cleaned it up”, I decided, oh no no no, uh uh, I’d rather overpay by hundreds of dollars than go down that road…</p>