Honest opinions: Johns Hopkins vs. Duke (premed, no aid)

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I recently got into both JHU and Duke RD, and am completely torn between the two! I plan on majoring in Neuroscience on a pre-med track, and don’t quality for aid for either of them. Based on my research, it seems that JHU is more prestigious for pre-med students and provides unparalleled research opportunities/connections, but I prefer almost everything else about Duke (location/weather, student culture, work-life balance, food, etc). Many of the adults around me seem to think JHU is the obvious option, due to its longstanding reputation as one of the best undergraduate schools for a career in medicine (I do not see myself changing paths anytime soon), but I would like to ask: Is the difference in academics worth choosing JHU over Duke?

Other than this, both schools are tied at #6 nationally, are both great research institutions, are basically the exact same distance from my hometown, and have extremely similar class sizes/medical school acceptance rates…below are a couple more of my considerations.

Johns Hopkins:
Pros:

  • lower tuition (65k)
  • Easy to get research/clinical experience beginning freshman year
  • More “focused” culture, surrounded by less distractions from academics
  • More longstanding/prestigious for neuroscience and pre-med
  • Medical & Biological Illustration Graduate Program (something I’m interested in, but doesn’t apply directly to undergrads)
  • Closer to NYC, DC

Cons:

  • Potential grade deflation/extremely rigorous workload
  • Lacking in work-life balance - heard many stories about burning out and toxic academic culture
  • Sketchier area around Baltimore
  • Apparently food is bad
  • Worse weather

Duke:
Pros:

  • Guaranteed housing all 4 years-QuadEX, better to build community and meet friends
  • More well-rounded school- both academically and otherwise (work-life balance with Duke being a big sports school/more of the complete college experience)
  • Grade inflation- most people say maintaining a high GPA is manageable without burning out
  • Very good food
  • Better, warmer weather
  • Student programs like Bass Connections, FLUNCH, etc

Cons:

  • higher tuition (70k)
  • Less “focused” on academics- surrounded by potential distractions
  • Less prestigious (?) for science and future connections in the medical field
  • Diversity is lower than JHU (I’m an Asian American student)

I am visiting both schools’ admitted students days next week, but would greatly appreciate any input/advice for choosing the right university. Thank you for your support in advance!!

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Hard choice. Dd considered both. Neither her nor me liked JHU after visiting (both area around campus and school’s presentation.) Relatives insisted that she had to apply. We both were very happy that she was not accepted.
I would 100% pick Duke. You want to be happy. Forget about rankings and other people’s opinions.

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I hear from the grapevine that JHU is the school with atrocious grade deflation. Personally, I’d go for Duke.

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Disagree with the first part of your sentence. Love the 2nd part.

Duke duke duke.

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This

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Prestige does not get you admitted to medical school. Prestige also does not get you admitted to a very good biomedical PhD program if you take that path instead (I have a daughter who is currently studying for a PhD in a biomedical field). You are comparing two exceptionally highly ranked, well known, and academically demanding universities.

JHU is a very good university. Given that you got no financial aid, it is expensive. The same could be said for Duke.

First of all, let’s suppose that you stick with medical school as your plan. You are likely to spend somewhere around about $400,000 over four years at JHU. By the time that you get there, medical school is likely to cost more than $100,000 per year, and might very well average $125,000 per year over four years there. Can your parents afford to pay $900,000 for your education, and if you have siblings then can they spend a similar amount for each sibling?

First I will assume that the answer is yes, this cost is fine. In that case, both JHU and Duke are excellent universities with strong premed programs. If you instead decide to go into biomedical research, then both of these schools can offer very good research opportunities and help you do well in that area also. If you go into research in neuroscience, or if you pick a very different path, the again both of these schools can help to set you up to do very well. If you get into medical school or if you instead get into a highly ranked biomedical PhD program, you are going to find that the large majority of students in the same graduate program came from schools ranked far lower than either JHU or Duke and you will find that they are nonetheless very, very strong and well prepared students.

In this case, you should be looking for the best fit for you. It sounds like you are thinking that “best fit” is probably Duke. If so, it is exceptional.

If the answer is no, $900,000 is a bit much, then you could be looking at taking on a LOT of debt before they call you “doctor”. Given some recent changes in student loan funding, you also should be aware of the risk that you will not be allowed to borrow even half this much over a full 8 years of university.

Any perception of “prestige” does not matter, and will be forgotten by the time that you complete your first tough midterm exam in a premed class. This is particularly true when you are looking at schools that are this exceptionally highly ranked.

Between JHU versus Duke, assuming that the $900,000 total cost over eight years is fine, then both schools are exceptional. In this case you should be looking for whichever school is the best fit.

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Both schools will have TONS of opportunities – it will be up to you to make the most of them.

Happy students tend to be more successful students.

Go Blue Devils!

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I would discuss finances for both undergrad and grad/medical school with your family.

If finances work for both, go with fit. As noted above, both of these schools are exceptional.

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i am a physician. JHU and Duke are equally prestigious for pre-med and honestly your med school probably matters more (and one could argue your residency and fellowship will matter even more after that, depending on what you want to do in your medical career). if you prefer Duke, go to Duke. you are likely to do better where you feel more comfortable anyways.

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I would go to admitted student day at both and pick the one where you see yourself happiest living and learning for 4 years. Both are excellent academically so you can’t go wrong. Those around you who feel that JHU is more prestigious don’t have to live there. And I don’t mean that there is anything wrong with JHU, it’s just you are the one that has to live where you choose for 4 years.

My D applied and was accepted to JHU for grad school. We visited with her and we all liked it quite a bit. But in the end she thought she’d be happier with another choice. JHU’s program was ranked #1 in her discipline and some people thought she was nuts for her choice (which like yours was between there and some other great options). But now that she’s been out of school for a year I think it’s pretty safe to say it probably would not have made any difference in regards to where she ended up after she graduated.

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IF you go to med school, you are going to be in school a LONG time and you might not have as much control about where your next location will. If see yourself happier at Duke for the next 4 years, go for it. The following 8 years won’t be as fun.

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I went to Hopkins (and am a doctor). I’d vote Duke. :wink:

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Also, congrats on having those choices!!

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Two kids at Duke (one just graduated) so I’m biased and neither was premed so no particular expertise with that. I wouldn’t weigh QuadX too heavily in your decision, it’s very much still a work in progress despite lots of time and money by Duke to make it happen; most student social activities are still outside of QuadX. But, as you mentioned, you can stay on campus all four years if you want and Hollows is a great on-campus senior year option. Neither of my kids were/are involved in Greek life and they still found their people.

Freshman year food on East Campus is fine, but once you move to West Campus, the food is absolutely fantastic quality for a college setting, my oldest chose Duke specifically for the food, go figure. FLUNCH (basically Duke paying students to take faculty members out to lunch) is a cool opportunity to explore research opportunities, etc.

Can’t speak to grade inflation but both my kids were in the engineering school so that might just be a Trinity thing. Both were involved in research; very easy to get involved.

We also toured JHU but, in addition to a variety of other factors, we did not love the area, the campus felt secure but right outside the bubble did not. In fairness, there are not great areas of Durham as well, but it felt safer in general to us. Duke’s medical center is right on campus and easily walkable, where I think JHU’s is a bus ride away from the Homewood campus which might be a consideration for a premed if you’re working late.

I doubt prestige is much of a factor either way, these are both great schools with great brand recognition. Enjoy the admitted student visits and make a decision after based on what your gut tells you, you can’t really go wrong!

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I always laugh at the - who is better than pre-med.

I’ve posted b4 - Vanderbilt residents in radiology first and 2nd year went to the following:

Auburn
CWRU
Florida A&M
Florida State
Fordham
Lipscomb
Luther
Murray State
Northern Illinois
Pitt
Princeton
Tulane
Tuskegee
U North Carolina
U Puerto Rico
U Tennessee

Taking it further - look at the Johns Hopkins residents - where’d they go undergrad:

JHU
UMD
UMBC
U Miami
Morgan State
South Carolina
TCNJ
U of Puerto Rico
UT Dallas
Towson
Vandy
and more

Duke Medical - first letters

Arkansas
Michigan
UNC
Princeton
Rochester
South Florida
Southeastern Louisiana
Texas

The moral of hte story - Johns Hopkins or James Madison

Duke or Delaware

You’re putting way too much into - which will get me into medical school. The name doesn’t matter…as it appears - even at the top hospitals.

Pick the one you like best!! Duke!!

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I think it depends on the specialty and the program. But in general, it doesn’t matter very much. You can always find a spot in most specialties. Even though there could be selection bias, if are trying to match into a very competitive specialty and you are a gunner…

Examples

Hospital for Special Surgery (orthopedics)
PGY-1
Williams/Stanford
Pittsburgh 8 year BS/MD
Carnegie Mellon/Columbia
CUNY-Hunter/Cornell
Harvard/Columbia
Boston College/Duke
Tulane/Case Western
Harvard/Harvard
Brown/NYU Grossman

PGY-2
Stanford/U Penn
Amherst/U Penn
Princeton/Cornell
Stanford/UCSF
Princeton/Stanford
Cornell/Miami
Cornell/Cornell
Stanford/Johns Hopkins
Johns Hopkins/Duke

PGY-3
Wisconsin/Penn St
Michigan/Penn
Harvard/UT Southwestern
Pomona/Cornell
Tufts/Case Western
Penn/Stanford
Yale/Wash U St Louis
Yale/Stanford
Penn/Harvard

PGY-4
Columbia/Harvard
Yale/Yale
Penn St/Penn
Georgia Tech/Cornell
Oregon/Medical College of Georgia
MIT/Johns Hopkins
Brown/SUNY Downstate
Washington/UCLA
UCLA/Columbia
MIT/Harvard

PGY-5
Yale/Cornell
Georgetown/Penn
Texas/Baylor
Georgia Tech/Stanford
Princeton/Wash U St Louis
Northwestern/Johns Hopkins
Chicago/Rush
Cal Tech/Harvard
Franklin & Marshall/Penn
Harvard/Thomas Jefferson

Johns Hopkins Neurosurgery
PGY-1
Princeton/Johns Hopkins
Lehigh/NY Medical College
Dartmouth/Vanderbilt
Harvard/Johns Hopkins

PGY-2
Jordan U of Science
Wyoming/Johns Hopkins
Rochester/Mayo Clinic
Michigan/Penn State

PGY-3
Toronto/Johns Hopkins
Cornell/Thomas Jefferson
Yale/Wash U St. Louis
Michigan/Duke

PGY-4
Dartmouth/Columbia
Virginia/Albert Einstein
American University of Beirut
Wash U St. Louis/Wash U St. Louis

PGY-5
Notre Dame/Johns Hopkins
University of Tokyo
University of Beirut/Wash U St. Louis

PGY-6
Wash U St. Louis/Stanford
Johns Hopkins/Johns Hopkins
BYU/Duke
Wash U St. Louis/Johns Hopkins

PGY-7
Kansas/Hofstra
Vanderbilt/Johns Hopkins

Harvard Ophthalmology
PGY-1
Université Saint-Joseph Faculté de Médecine
UC Berkeley/Oregon
MIT/Yale
North Carolina/Harvard
Cornell/Yale
UC San Diego/Cornell
Boston College/Thomas Jefferson
Stanford/Tufts
University of Chicago/Johns Hopkins

PGY-2
Colby/Harvard
Yale/Howard
Johns Hopkins/Cornell
Michigan/Harvard
MIT/Northwestern
Drexel/Harvard
Johns Hopkins/Panjab University
Harvard/Columbia
Stanford/Stanford

PGY-3
Davidson/Duke
University of Chicago/Cornell
Harvard/Harvard
VCU/Harvard
Harvard/Harvard
Harvard/Johns Hopkins
MIT/Yale
Penn/Columbia

PGY-4
Wash U St Louis/Stanford
University of Dusseldorf Medical School
Harvard/Harvard
Harvard/Michigan
Bowdoin/Harvard
Dartmouth/Vanderbilt
Fudan/Columbia
Stanford/Stanford
Tufts/Johns Hopkins
Harvard/Cornell

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These lists of where medical residents in various programs came from, in terms of undergrad and med schools, are interesting, but they have a way of overwhelming the threads of individual students trying to make individual decisions. I feel as if this could be its own “reference thread” that could then be referred to as needed.

But in this case, it’s likely that the OP has made a decision already. @jslee07 , do you have an update on whether/what you have decided?

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The OP was comparing elite academic programs. Since the OP was accepted into both schools, he/she probably has outstanding academic credentials. I don’t think it’s a stretch to guess that based on the initial post, the OP (even at this very early age) probably wanted advice on how to keep all of his/her options such as a future orthopedic surgery residency at HSS open. The short answer to the OP (and to anyone else in a similar situation) is yes.

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The short answer to “how to keep all of his/her options such as a future orthopedic surgery residency at HSS open” is “yes”…? Yes to what? It’s hard to see either of these undergrad schools limiting future options in any way.

All of which is moot because the OP never responded to anybody’s input, and hasn’t been back to CC in almost two weeks. I expect they have moved on to whichever bright future they have chosen.

I still think a free-standing thread on the topic of residencies and what undergrad schools they end up drawing from would be interesting and helpful to be able to refer to. That wasn’t a criticism.