<p>Considering he’s going to be a high school freshman, it’s best to concentrate on that and wait till he’s a junior to concentrate on colleges! However, there is a poster on CC whose S is at Bates and loves it. Maybe you could send a pm to her, her screen name is emilybee.</p>
<p>Also, just as a precaution…see what the 8th grade teacher thinks of honors English. I’m not steering you away from it, however, my S1 had honors English all 4 years and found it to be tons of work. My S2 LOVES to read, but after seeing what S1 went through, he selected regular English instead of honors…although they say that honors is better for preparing you for SAT’s and writing skills…</p>
<p>Just go with your instict, as well as what your S wants, as well as what the teachers suggest. But even if the teachers suggest all honors or no honors, it is still what you & your S together thinks is best. Yes, starting off with honors is easier to step down, than to step up…</p>
<p>My older daughter took honors English and Social Studies classes all through high school. She was not allowed in honors math classes because her 7th grade teacher wouldn’t let her take algebra in 8th. She pulled a C or two, but mostly B’s. She could probably have pulled higher grades in college prep classes, but she’d have been bored to tears. </p>
<p>After her first C, I wanted to pull her back to college prep but her English teacher talked me out of it. He valued her oral participation; it was her writing that kept her lower. Turns out she was diagnosed FINALLY with a learning disability in her senior year when she took a course with a teacher trained in literacy deficiencies (we’d tried to get her tested in elementary school but the school refused).</p>
<p>Anyhoo, she ended up doing quite well in her college English classes and discovered that the honors courses had taught her to analyze and apply what she read far better than many of her classmates in the state school she attended. State school was small, and she thrived in that type of environment.</p>
<p>And for a career? The kid who was not allowed to take honors math had a straight-A math average as a math education major, LOVES advanced calculus, and is happy as can be teaching 6-12 math (head of the department, as the only teacher) in a tribal village in a remote part of Alaska.</p>
<p>Your course selection is not just about admissions. Taking a rigorous courseload will help him prepare for college level work as well. Also the tougher classes will improve his ACT score. </p>
<p>I also agree with those that say it depends on your school.</p>
<p>I would start him out in the level you think he would comfortably succeed. This will ensure that he makes a good transition to high school which can be challenging for a lot of kids. If he does well, then choose one or two honors classes in his strongest subjects for sophomore year and see how that goes. Also, encourage him to explore extracurricular activities because he just might find his passion. As for colleges, they respect an upward trend and steadily increasing challenges and if he finds something he is good at and passionate about, that could trump grades in the admissions process anyway. Its good to consider the these things early but there is a lot to be gotten out of the high school experience itself.</p>
<p>'Considering he’s going to be a high school freshman, it’s best to concentrate on that and wait till he’s a junior to concentrate on colleges! However, there is a poster on CC whose S is at Bates and loves it. Maybe you could send a pm to her, her screen name is emilybee."</p>
<p>Here I am!</p>
<p>Curious Jane, my son took all Regents classes (equivalent to regular classes) his freshman year, about half Regents, half honors his Soph. yr, and all honors his Jr and Sr year, no AP’s, one community college class (Physics) and was accepted at every school he applied to and is at Bates (soph) and loving every minute of it.</p>
<p>On CC he would be considered a very average student - his rank was 28/63, I think his GPA was around 3.8ish, he had a 30ACT, 1900something on his SAT, and took no SAT subject tests. He did have EC’s which he did all four years (band and XC,) but had no leadership positions and never won an award. He did make NHS his Sr. year which had been a goal for him since he was a Freshman but all his apps where already in by then.</p>
<p>Even though I know it’s too early to think of certain schools, and of course my kid will be the one choosing anyway, it’s nice to have a sense of what kind of schools might be accessible. My brother had such a good experience at Bates, although that was 20 years ago, and I can imagine my son thriving in a similar environment. </p>
<p>I also wanted to say that I completely agree with everyone saying that college admissions shouldn’t be the only factor in choosing classes, or even the primary factor, but it is one thing to think about.</p>
<p>Something else to consider is how big a difference there is between the honors and regular courses. The biggest problem comes when there is a wide gap, leaving the regular courses too uninteresting but the honors courses too difficult for the given student.</p>
<p>Another note. The diff. between so called “average” student and “excellent” student is basically in setting priorities and commitment and parents’ support. No brilliance is required to be top of the top in High School. Aside from the few with Learning challenges, absolutely any kid including the ones who might lack in background coming from Middle school, every single one is capapble of catching up and maintain very high academic standard. Again, what is needed is correct priority list, commitment and family support. There is no rocket science here and the same goes for most programs in UG. Coming from this prospective, Honors might be somewhat easier (in both HS and UG) as they usually have smaller classes and teachers/profs who are more accessible and willing to work with kids who are much more commited to learning in class.</p>
<p>Hard work and prioritizing school is certainly key to academic success, but kids with a higher natural intelligence who also work very hard will still do better than their diligent counterparts with only average intelligence. The former won’t be as easily deceived by tricky test questions. They’ll be sharper during in-class discussions. Also, they’ll come up with ideas for papers more quickly and will solve math problems faster, and thus will have more time left over to perfect assignments or self-study.</p>
<p>For a motivated student (and the OP’s child sounds like one), I think the type of and style of teacher is the most relevant consideration. The hard working student is invested in ‘good grades’ but can vary performance based on the style of teaching: DD had an ‘honors’ science teacher with little investment in the classroom or the students imho last year; teacher tested from the textbook with little review of the material in class. DD did not bring to class a natural love of the subject which would have given her a broad, natural knowledge base from sources other than the teacher, and did ok but not well. I - without thinking it thru, thought perhaps she had a less than great aptitude for science based learning and urged her to take non-honors science this year. She refused. And, the teacher, this go-around, suits DD to a “T” - teacher is detail oriented, does not test material not explicitly presented, and is always available for a question, and tries her best to encourage girls in STEM careers. Low and behold, DD says what a great experience 10th grade science class is. The multiple quizzes, and heavy hw in this class suits DD too because she’s not guessing what she needs to know. </p>
<p>Watch the teacher, the method of instruction, and the type of classwork required.</p>
<p>Ucbalumnus brings up the problem in my daughter’s school. Huge gaps between some regular and honors classes, very small gaps in others. Sometimes the gaps are affected by what teacher you get, as anothermom3 notes. It’s a guessing game to choose the right level. She is taking her first honors class this year, in history. She has a great teacher and although he is demanding, she’s doing fine. Her regular level biology teacher, however, is unclear, inconsistent and rushes through the material. She would have been better off with an honors class with a decent teacher.</p>
<p>Those honors classes aren’t working out so well for my son this year. After the first week and half of school, he was in his counselor’s office begging to go back to regular classes. The counselor said it was too late, and now, at the end of the quarter he’s got 2 D’s. This is after getting a 3.7 in regular classes last year and teacher recommendations to be moved up to honors. We’ve got to figure out how to salvage second quarter and then hopefully go back to regular classes for second semester.</p>
<p>I agree that engagement, and work habits are hugely important, and for my son these are definitely strengths. But, speaking both as a teacher, and as someone for whom academics came very easily, I also see that he expends much more effort to gain access to concepts than the students at the “top”. I don’t think there’s anything he can’t learn, but I also think his time and stamina are precious, and I want to make sure that he’s allocating them in a way that makes sense. Even if I thought that having him spend every minute of the day on academics would give him access to HPYMS, I wouldn’t choose that path. I want him to grow up confident, and happy. I want him to have time to explore all sorts of interests and figure out how to build a life that’s got richness and meaning to him. I don’t think that cramming academics would support that goal.</p>
<p>So, I guess I figure we’ll look for middle ground. Spending enough time on academics that he has the skills he’ll need to gain admissions to a nice variety of schools, and to be successful at whichever he chooses, but not so much that he can’t play football, snowboard, sing, and work on the stage crew. </p>
<p>My question here is essentially, if I’m saying “our goal is for him to do as well as he can do with X number of hours a week of homework/studying, and some but not a lot of outside support”, then is it better to allocate that time and that support to getting A’s or B’s on level or B’s or C’s in honors. It sounds like the answer is likely going to be to start in honors in most but maybe not all of his subjects, but be prepared to adjust as freshman and sophomore year go on.</p>