Honors Question for Recent Alums/4th years

Colleges & Universities University of Chicago
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<p>I’m a second year in a humanities major, right now I’ve got a 3.45 gpa. But, i had a horrific first quarter of college (gpa: 2.5) but since then lowest grades have been b+'s (gpa since first quarter first year: 3.8). hoping for a 3.6 by the end of this year and a 3.7 or up by the end of junior year. </p>

<p>i’m wondering whether my one really bad quarter is going to rule me out of the running for college awards (phi beta kappa, marshall) or even law,grad school/post-grad scholarship stuff (harder to predict obviously). the bad quarter was all core classes too, which means my potential major gpa is still solid, just one class i got an A- in. im not sure how much this matters for pbk or marshall does anyone know? because just looking at my transcript seems really bad to committees/admissions people that i bombed that badly, dareisay doing well since then makes the contrast even worse. if anyone knows how to wipe grades off transcript plz share haha, or if anyone knows strategies to get that gpa# up</p>

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<p>Only your overall GPA should matter, so I don’t see why it would matter if you can get your GPA up to 3.7-3.8 by the end of your third year. Many scholarships have a GPA minimum requirement of 3.8 to apply, so if you can get to that point, you would be in a very ideal position.</p>

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<p>if you’re doing well as a humanities major how did you manage to perform so horribly in the core?</p>

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<p>it had very little to do w/ the material actually the bad grades were in a math class anda a science class one of hwich was completely out of my range and by the time i realized it was too late to drop w/o getting a W. that + all hte non-academic parts about adjusting to school far from home + some bad luck (got terribly ill, girlfriend broke up w/ me) made for the perfect storm. it doesnt excuse the grades obviously but since you asked…</p>

<p>edit: phuriku so is like marshall/phi beta kappa attainable with a 3.7(ish)? i can’t find any info about what sorts of #'s people have to have in order to get them. altho i do know some post-grad stuff has minimum gpa</p>

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<p>First off, in terms of grad school/law school/post grad opportunities, you should be completely fine. To be competitive for very good law schools (i.e. top 10 schools) from Chicago, you need around a 3.6 GPA, and you should be there within a year. If you’re interested in law school, get your GPA in the 3.6-3.7 range, and then really just concentrate on DOMINATING the LSAT. The LSAT is really the key factor - if you can get a great score, you’ll be a very persuasive candidate. If you have a high LSAT score and a good GPA from a respected school like Chicago, you’re in great shape. </p>

<p>For grad school in humanities, they only really care about the GPA for the major, and you should be fine there too. It sounds like you have a great GPA in your major, and the Chicago rep does absolutely great on the grad school front. If you are interested in MA or PhD programs, I’d concentrate on keeping your GPA up of course, but also forming good relationships with good professors who’d be willing to write you recs. Great recs and showing you’re a good fit for a program is key to the grad school admissions game. </p>

<p>For post-grad opportunities, it really depends what you want to do. I’d say a Marshall or Rhodes would be out of reach, but Chicago has a great tradition with the fulbright program, and good Chicago students are always in the running for that. Again, just like w grad school apps, focus on creating a persuasive research topic and make sure you have references who will be willing to go to bat for you. </p>

<p>From what I know, student marshals generally have a 3.8+, and PBK usually starts around 3.7. You should be in the running for PBK. Student Marshal is harder to predict just because, well, it’s really hard to attain. </p>

<p>The beauty about Chicago’s trimester system is that, of course, a trimester will only count for 1/3 of your year end’s GPA, whereas in a semester, it’s 1/2 your year end’s GPA. So basically, at Chicago, you have more chances to make up for one poor trimester. Also, if you really wanted, you could take electives at Chicago over the summer - the extra session of classes could boost your overall GPA even more by throwing some more good grades onto your transcript. It’s worth considering if you’re really driven to get as high a GPA as possible. </p>

<p>Right now, that one bad trimester is behind you. Go forward knowing you’re pretty much still in the running for everything - don’t lose focus, keep working hard, and make sure you push that GPA up and up. Good luck!</p>

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<p>Cue7, for the record, Chicago has “quarters”, not “trimesters”. An interesting quote from answers.com:

</p>

<p>A 3.7 by the end of jr year would hardly remove you from Marshall or Rhodes competition. Cue7 just has no knowledge. The Rhodes folks especially love good stories. Just google Aaron Polhamous to see what I mean. He started with a community college degree. </p>

<p>The truth is though that top national fellowships (Rhodes, Marshall, Truman etc. ) depend on a lot more than just GPA. If you want to learn more, there’s lots of information online.</p>

<p>PBK decisions are made locally. Membership typically is limited to the top 10% of the class by GPA. In theory, they consider more than GPA. In practice, I don’t know. They have more than one selection period - the “stars” are selected the end of junior year, and being selected as a junior means the U considers you to be on track for top things when you graduate. There are other “markers” that let you know the U is “grooming” you for top competitive postgrad scholarships and fellowships, such as being selected Junior Marshall (there are others). </p>

<p>Indeed, the real success in the post graduate competitions, be it Rhodes, Fulbright, fellowship for grad school, jobs and just about everything else is to (1) do very well in your course work of course, but more importantly (2) get to know faculty, who write the recs, nominate and go to bat for you for great things like Student Marshall and serve as mentors and (3) get to know your advisor, who can also open doors you don’t know exist. </p>

<p>Ultimately, what separates the star grads from the high GPA grads are contacts and accomplishments. An accomplishment can be a paper so well written that the faculty reader suggest you publish it, a project so well done that the faculty member is wowed and so forth. That is where you get your bonus points, and that is where you make folks forget about a weak 1st quarter (which already seems so long ago, doesn’t it?)</p>

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<p>Maybe someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I have a strong impression that not all of the student marshals are selected on the basis of grades, or necessarily have >3.8 GPAs. Some, yes, but others seem to be selected on the basis of extracurricular activities.</p>

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<p>newmassdad - haha I know Chicago has quarters, not trimesters, but for the sake of this board, I say trimesters, because “quarters” may be misleading (prospies may think Chicago has 4 quarters per academic [Sept - June] year, which is not the case, most Chicago students are in classes for 3 academic terms per academic year). </p>

<p>Also, I have no knowledge? Come on man, that’s just rude. I went to Chicago and have known a handful of Rhodes/Marshall scholars and Student Marshals pretty well. Generally, candidates from Chicago for the Rhodes or Marshall must have sky-high GPAs. Certainly, this is not ALWAYS the case, and, like most other awards, superb performance in some other endeavor can compensate for a (slightly) lower GPA. From what I know though, a sky-high GPA can open the door, and then you need all sorts of other amazing attributes to even get past the early stages of the competition. </p>

<p>If you want to point out the exceptions to the rule, sure, there will always be some, and if the OP has something amazing he’s been doing it’ll help for a Rhodes scholarship. Generally though, from what I know, candidacy for becoming a Student Marshal is primarily based on grades (and, as often comes from this, good relationships w professors), and the Marshals are the ones that are groomed for Rhodes or Marshall Scholarships. I’d say something like 80-85% of Chicago Rhodes’ winners are Student Marshals, and of that group, the vast majority of those Marshals have superb grades.</p>

<p>Ultimately, if the OP has a 3.7 from Chicago by the end of junior year, a Rhodes or Marshall would still be a reach - maybe not a huge reach, but he/she isn’t in the first rank of students the Chicago admin is grooming for the Rhodes/Marshall app process (barring some utterly amazing extra-curricular).</p>

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<p>Quick Addendum, for those interested in a list of Chicago’s Rhodes Scholars, go here:</p>

<p>[Rhodes</a> Scholars | The University of Chicago](<a href=“http://www.uchicago.edu/about/accolades/rhodes.shtml]Rhodes”>http://www.uchicago.edu/about/accolades/rhodes.shtml)</p>

<p>I did a quick tabulation of the past decade of winners for U of C, and from what I could find, 9 of the 10 winners in the past decade or so were student marshals. Of course maybe some had “lower” GPAs, but the Marshals are the best of the best at Chicago - they’ve built up outstanding GPAs along with superb relationships with professors and created accomplished scholarly work. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of these marshals had at least a 3.8, especially since this decade has also seen the emergence of grade inflation at Chicago.</p>

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<p>Cue7, sounds like we’re on the same page, then? </p>

<p>Truth is that national fellowships and honors are darn tough for anyone. Stellar grades are the starting point, but, as we both know, there is much more to it, and it varies by program anyway. </p>

<p>And the funny truth is that most winners of Rhodes, Marshalls et al don’t spend their college years worrying about winning anything. They’re too focused on the “present” if you will - doing well on their current endeavors. It is ironic that the resume building types get screened out somehow along the way! JMHO, though.</p>

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<p>Newmassdad - perhaps, but I still disagree with this statement: “A 3.7 by the end of jr year would hardly remove you from Marshall or Rhodes competition.”</p>

<ul>
<li>You might not be completely removed, but you’re not exactly in good shape with a 3.7 GPA (if you have no other amazing attribute), because the University is concentrating its resources on the candidates that are already better positioned.</li>
</ul>

<p>So I would refine your statement to read: “With a 3.7 by the end of your third year, candidacy just from Chicago for a Marshall or Rhodes would be a considerable long shot.” </p>

<p>Again, maybe a decade or two ago, with less grade inflation, a 3.7 might still have enjoyed a better shot. I’m sort of adjusting everything for what I assume is the new reality at Chicago (i.e. that the average GPA is now roughly a 3.4-3.5, and perhaps 50% of the students get honors from the college). In this landscape, a 3.7 GPA is still a great accomplishment, but there are just a lot more 3.7 GPAs walking around Hyde Park nowadays.</p>

<p>Finally, I agree about the mentality of the scholar winners from Chicago. Also, the marshals tended to be that way too - they all tended to be really passionate about what they did, so the success just followed. They weren’t concerned about resume building as much, again, they just loved what they did.</p>

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<p>One other note - newmassdad, I still think your statement that I have no knowledge was inaccurate - what I’ve said I think still very much applies to the majority (the vast majority, probably) of scholarship winners from Chicago. I actually think, having gone to Chicago, I have at least some knowledge of the situation at U of C.</p>

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<p>Cue7, Maybe, maybe not. Unless one had access to the official transcripts, oen does not know the GPA of any winners. Self reporting is notoriously inaccurate. Rounding errors? </p>

<p>I’ll bow out of this dogfight and let you declare victory, though. I just don’t care enough.</p>

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<p>What’s a junior marshall, and why should I want to get it? And, if I do want to get it, how do I do that?</p>

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<p>newmassdad - that’s a fair point, Chicago plays all of this stuff (the requirements for the marshal, gpa cut offs for PBK, etc.) notoriously close to its vest, and I think it’s good - it discourages empty resume or GPA building and encourages exploration.</p>

<p>Also, you’re right, self-reporting can be very inaccurate here, and there can of course be rounding errors and the like. When I was at Chicago, though, I was close friends with a few marshals, PBK members and actually, one kid who wound up winning the Rhodes (I’ll leave out whether I was lucky enough to be on any of these lists for anonymity purposes). Toward the end of our fourth year, a discussion between all of us came up, and while the winners and marshals agreed there was no “magic-number,” most seemed to think around a 3.8 (say around a 3.75) at the end of junior year was the cut-off for Marshal candidacy, and a 3.8+ was needed just to get your foot in the door for Rhodes/Marshalls candidacy. Around a 3.7 (say a 3.65) seemed to be cut-off for PBK. With the grade inflation a decade later, the actual numbers might need to be adjusted a bit. </p>

<p>Again, these are all ballpark figures, and of course there are always exceptions to the rule. Someone who contributes in some amazing way may be up for a student marshal appointment even without an absolutely stellar GPA. Generally, I think, and even over time, the GPA ballpark I’ve provided holds true for the majority of the top of the class.</p>

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<p>RE Student Marshall, and also addressing JHS’s earlier question, from an old CC post referencing graduation June 08:</p>

<p>Student Marshals, described by the university as “appointed by the President of the University in recognition of their excellent scholarship and leadership. Appointment as a Student Marshal is the highest honor conferred by the University upon undergraduate students.” This year there were 39. Curiously, 18 of the SM were selected PBK this year, 11 last year (as juniors) and 10 were not even PBK. </p>

<p>kkk, the cynic would say that the only advantage of being a Student Marshall is that you don’t need to rent a commencement/convocation robe - the U will lend you one. And it is a different color…and you get to march in separately.</p>

<p>Downsides are that you must show up for, and march in, the commencement your junior year - a long boring morning if you’re not graduating, and you will be last to get your diploma when you do graduate. But you get to march in and out first, so you get to refreshments sooner? </p>

<p>In theory, SM should look good on your resume, but since no one outside UofC knows what it is ( :slight_smile: ), it may not matter much.</p>

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<p>Also, you may want to focus first on being nominated for the Maroon Key Society (you are nominated as a second year but do not begin duties until your third year). This is a group of students which meets regularly with deans of the college to bring awareness of undergraduate issues to individuals able to enact change. To be nominated, you must have stellar participation in extracurricular activities but not necessarily a stellar GPA. This is still a great honor, you get to attend the same fancy awards ceremony as Student Marshals, and MKS members often receive even more prestigious awards their third or fourth years.</p>

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<p>Quick question. I am a second year and wanted to know how you go about being nominated for the Maroon Key Society. Do you hint at your advisor to nominate you, or is the decision solely up to them?
Maria</p>

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<p>I have no idea, but see no downside to discussing this with your advisor. What would they do, hold it against you because you asked? </p>

<p>Another thing you could do is find some past members and ask them. You can get their names from the UofC Chronicle, which you can search for online.</p>

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<p>I am a member of the Maroon Key Society and was nominated by members of the admissions office- while I’m sure you could hint at being nominated and it wouldn’t hurt, generally those doing the nominating are those who see you more “in action” than your adviser would, namely, those responsible for RSOs/volunteer activities/academic programs you may be involved in.</p>