respectfully, you didn’t look very hard. My kid was not math/science and her program was all about the things you say you were looking for. I understand that things are different for you here than in Korea but, unfortunately, you didn’t explore the vast array of amazing options available in our city.
@zoosermom it could be as this educational system is totally new to us. But when I compare what opportunities daughters are offered for free we feel blessed.
It is the posters earning $250,000/year complaining about being unable to pay for college that bothers me.
For what it is worth, the OP’s scenario of self-employment income of $100,000 is a worse case than W-2 income of $100,000 at an employer with typical good benefits for well paid employees.
The self-employed person needs to pay significant extra taxes (the “employer part” of the payroll tax), assuming honest tax reporting, and no ability to use loopholes to convert income from wage/salary to some other category that is taxed at more favorable rates and/or not subject to payroll tax. The self-employed person also needs to buy his/her own benefits, the most expensive of which are medical insurance, vacation/sick time (basically foregone income during that period), and probably disability insurance (much more expensive individually than for employer groups due to adverse selection). So $100,000 self-employment income could be around $20,000 “less” after equalizing for taxes and benefits compared to $100,000 W-2 income at an employer with typical good benefits for well paid employees.
Still, even with the self-employment “penalty”, $100,000 is not exactly “poor”.
Yes, if someone can live reasonably comfortably in a high cost area on $100,000 of self-employment income, that does bring up the question of why someone with $250,000 income cannot live that way and have plenty left over for longer term goals like kids’ college, retirement, etc…
@Empireapple, I’m a New York State resident and taxpayer who is quite happy my tax $’s are going to help pay for an affordable education for all New Yorkers.
I sent my kid to prep school but happily voted for my public school district’s budget every year, also. I pay $7k/yr just in school tax.
At the time my S was going into college our income was approx $125k (one income earner.) S got $40k/yr in institutional aid from his college - bringing our total COA for 4 years to $80k - exactly what it would have cost us if he chose to go to Bing. Our budget was basically the cost of NYS instate tuition, which we knew we could pay for out of present income, as we had been paying approx that amount for private school and summer camp for 8 years before that. It required being frugal (not moving up from starter home, driving used cars, not taking expensive vacations, etc,) which was fine with us.
Hi everyone. OP here. I just wanted to clarify that the situation I posted about is NOT my situation. Parts of it are…I am self employed and do pay a crazy amount for health insurance. BUT the rest is based on people around me that I know. I think this is an interesting conversation, but what I really wanted to point out is that there can be people struggling even with an income that seems like it should be sufficient.
@TomSrOfBoston
Why does it bother you? Not your circus not your monkey.
Do you know anything about the personal lives of those that make $250,000. Maybe they are supporting elderly parents. Maybe they have a family member that has severe medical issues. Maybe they have multiple children to put through college.
I guess I just don’t have time to be bothered by someone else complaining. They have their reasons and it’s not for me to judge.
@bhs1978 I guess I hit a nerve. There are people earning far less than $250,000 and less than $100,000 who are struggling with paying for college. and while the noble excuses you give for their needing financial aid may be valid in a few cases, the high income parents who have complained about lack of financial aid here on CC are putting their kids through private secondary schools and/or paying off the mortgage on the McMansion. All lifestyle choices that they made.
These parents want someone else to pay for their kids education so that they do not have to sacrifice their lifestyle.
It is very possible to pay a large mortgage on a tiny house in NY suburbs. Medium home price in Westchester county is over 600K. Its not much better in Rockland or New Jersey suburbs or Long Island or anywhere else within commuting distance of NYC. The mortgage on a 350K house — which is far less than the medium, nearly impossible to find, and probably in poor shape and in need of extensive work would come out to about 1700 per month. Add to that NY’s insane property taxes and you are easily far over 3000 per month on your mortgage – NOT for a McMansion.
@gallentjill That would be $36,000 yearly mortgage payment. A $250,000/ year income would allow that to be paid easily.
I’m curious to know what people think of the Pew calculator, since the term “middle class” seems to be such a hot button term. Have you ever tried it? http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
I think it’s enlightening, but I’d be curious to hear what others think. The one thing is doesn’t account for is inherited assets, which are a big part of the wealth discrepancy, of course. A “middle class” income with enough inherited from grandma to put down a big down payment is very different from a “middle class” income without that.
It’s the donut hole. Solid income that you can’t complain about, but high expenses leave little and FA is minimally available if at all. I live in a nondescript suburb of Denver and mortgages here now start at $2000/mo and go up from there. This is already an hour commute from where the jobs are, so all of you who say it’s a “choice” are making some value judgements you might want to step back from. If I made the same income and lived in Youngstown, OH (my home town) I could send my kid to college at full pay – but that’s not where my job happens to be, nor am I going to try to relocate my elderly mother back there. Financial aid does not account for regional differences well, it’s a fact. I don’t ask for sympathy but seriously who need the snark?
I always say that middle class and middle income are not the same thing.
I’m currently reading “Dream Hoarders” and it uses a definition that includes income, culture and education. I agree with that.
I’m judging. My husband and I are uneducated. He is functionally illiterate. I commute at least three hours every day and have done so for more than 30 years. We always lived frugally. But there was nothing in this world going to stop me from educating my kids to not have to commute like this or work two manual labor jobs as their father has, certainly not my willingness to sacrifice.
It is absolutely a choice. Which is NOT to say it’s a bad choice. But it is a choice. Many people would say that my commute is insane and most people would and did say that my husband’s choice to work two jobs for decades was insane, but it was a choice. We had a goal, and when you have no education and no particular skills, this is what was left to us. My first two are solid and stable EDUCATED professionals and there is not a day that I don’t thank God for the fact that we kept our health long enough to get to this point. I own my choices but I don’t think they are the only ones. But I understand they ARE choices, and had we not worked so hard, our kids wouldn’t have been as successful as they are because it’s up to us to educate them.
Additionally, I have done high schools for three different kids in the same city as the prep school parent. I can tell you that we in NYC are blessed beyond what I can even articulate in terms of the public high school options for our kids. Prep school isn’t a necessity in a place where it’s either that or a terrible school. It’s a choice, as well. Which also doesn’t make it a bad choice, either, but when you spend so much money on high school and there is less left for college, then you have to approach college differently.
If you have to work in Manhattan, you can live in Newark. That’s affordable and in commuting distance.
There are also cheaper options in the boroughs that don’t involve taxation in other states or localities.
If we had a system like other modern western democracies have, worrying how to educate our children and not needing to worry about paying astronomical health insurance/medical costs, wouldn’t even cross our minds. Hopefully, some day we will come to our senses.
Here is a midwest example using a mix of the OP figures and my real life figures.
6K per month take home, including deductions for medical, dental, 401K, etc.
$2500 mortgage, taxes and insurance in a 35 mile out Chicago suburb
$700 food (from OP)
$400 utilities
$300 car insurance
$400 public transportation commuting expenses (1.5 hours each way)
$250 cell phone
$100 prescription cost
Total $4,650 in fixed monthly expenses leaving $1,350 for all other expenses such as : medical deductibles, car repairs (older cars note no car payment) and fuel, public school fees, home maintenance, etc. even in a good month that leaves $1,000 left over. $12,000 a year just pays the housing bill at most schools leaving nothing for tuition and fees and no emergency funding for the unexpected illness, home repair, loss of job, etc. Granted a well funded 529 can help but that money would have to have come out of the left over $1,000 at some point leaving very little savings for a middle class family.
I think I didn’t phrase my initial post very well. My point was never to ask for sympathy for anyone making any particular income. Sometimes parents come on this site asking for help trying to figure out how to fund college. They state that they are “middle class” or “lower middle class” or something to that affect. They always get a tremendous amount of help from the very kind people here, but also a good amount of judgmental posts about how they characterize themselves. Or whether they should have saved more, etc. If I were a new poster here and I got that kind of response, I know it would be quite intimidating and uncomfortable. It would be better if parents simply posted the amount they could afford to pay. However, people new to this site don’t know that.
My thought was to provide some context about how even people with a seemingly high income can end up being strapped when it comes time for college.