I’m a computer science tutor with a number of high school students as clients (sophomores and juniors). I’m hoping we can work on things that actually help their admission changes. When I was in high school, what helped me was good results in math and science competitions. My students are mostly not interested in programming competitions, however.
I can think of two things that might help
(1) personal projects
(2) a Coursera or Edx certificate
They all have worked on personal projects. I’m wondering, though, how impressed a college would be. Outside of winning a competition I don’t know how a college would judge the quality and magnitude of the work.
Another option would be to get a good grade and a certificate in a Coursera or Edx course.
Any idea whether these things would be considered by college admissions staff?
A lot of CS applicants have actually not even taken any courses in CS believe it or not because they don’t have the opportunities at their schools. Also, those that do apply even if they have that coursework don’t all have some of that other stuff.
There are hackathons they can participate in that happen all the time online. Github repositories where they can showcase their work/projects. Clubs at their schools, or starting a CS oriented club. Programming competitions, Coding schools. CS tutoring. AP Courses if offered, Dual credit if othere courses are not offered - possibly more valuable than Coursera. Independent Study. Self teaching languages.
There are truly so many things out there that kids can do, however, there are a lot of schools that you don’t even need to apply directly to CS because you can declare later after you’ve had some exposure so that’s another track for these kids who think they may be interested.
I don’t know much about college admissions. I thought they would want some yardstick to measure these accomplishments. For example, would any admissions department actually look at a GitHub repository? And if they did, how they would they judge if it was significant work as opposed to entirely copied and pasted? How does a student show they have learned a programming language without some meaningful demonstration of that, something that an admissions department can actually count as true learning? It’s very easy to fake most of what you mention, or include it on an application despite having done nothing that was meaningful learning, but perhaps admissions does consider it.
Well this is actually not the case. 3 of my 4 kids are in the Computer Science field and it’s not really about contests per se. They do look at a github because that showcases their work. Just like someone in the arts that needs to show their portfolio of work. It’s not whether it’s considered significant, it’s to showcase their work period. Where would they be copying and pasting it from? Someone else? If they did that, it’s plagiarism. If a non CS person is reviewing their application than they won’t know what they’re looking it, if it’s a CS person, then they will know what to look for, coding techniques, etc. I know in one of my son’s essays he wrote about why he used certain graphics in a game he was assigned relative to the other students games. Most people don’t have the exact same code.
They can show the coding language in their projects, in their coursework, AP classes, etc. How does someone show they have learned Algebra? No different really.
Of course kids can try to fake things, but at a competitive university you cannot. My daughter in CS, didn’t even have to declare until after this year, but had the coursework early and met the grade requirements, so she was able to do so. There are usually minimum requirements just to get into the door for Engineering (where CS is) at a school. In her case she came in having already taken AP CS A and Adv Data Algorithms as well as iOS Honors Apps. I think it’s fairly safe to say she had the background and wasn’t “faking” it. Kids that can’t hack it will bomb out anyway. If a kid has no CS background but applies to a CS program, then there are going to be other strengths that they have that passes them through the front door - the Calc requirements, Science, etc. If they fake it and make it through, they will probably bomb out immediately. What’s the point.
My oldest used to interview often students from MIT and they would usually take a pass on them. They usually couldn’t pass the initial interview which was a hands on project. So again, you can be a genius, but some things you just cannot fake.
A lot of schools want to see the drive and interest as well. Kids applying to competitive programs know what they need to do and can do it without faking. Kids applying to avg programs, it doesn’t really matter because in most cases anyone can get into those programs without any background in CS.
CS is not that different from many college majors in that many college students succeed in the major with nothing from high school other than perhaps an introductory course in high school.
It is not like a high school student needs to become an expert software developer before going to college to study CS. Indeed, if the student is that good and motivated to be able to self-educate enough CS to that level, the student may not need to go to college at all to study CS in order to start a career. But that is relatively uncommon, since most people will learn CS better with the structure of a curriculum in school and the help of instructors.
From a college admissions standpoint, general academic strength, academic strength in math, and interest in the subject would be relevant (this may be where learning additional CS while in high school can help, in that it shows stronger interest in the subject).
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@programmingtutor Admissions is tough to define or create a yardstick for because nobody knows the “secret sauce” and every school is different. I think getting into a college to do CS breaks in two ways:
Schools that admit students and every major is open to them. These schools are generally the toughest to get into because of that freedom. This is the MIT’s of the world. For these schools it’s more about being the type of student they are looking for. Coding would be a solid EC, but not required.
Schools that direct admit into CS. These schools are generally easier to be admitted to, but VERY difficult to get into CS. Cal Berkeley is an example. It’s also tough to switch into CS once enrolled. For these schools I think it’s important to show that you understand what CS is and you are truly interested in studying CS. A lot of HS students start in CS because of the salries or their parents, and that’s not enough.
btw, I think the value if coding is learning is it’s a method of problem solving that is becoming more and more common in the workplace.
Being a good programmer is neither a prerequisite to, nor the goal of, an elite college CS program. Demonstrating competency in STEM, particularly math, is more important than in programming skills. Having said that, you do need to show why you’re interested in CS if you pick CS as your desired major.
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@ucbalumnus
Spot on. My 23 year old decided to pass on the top 5 ranked CS program he was supposed to go to in order to go out to Silicon Valley and get a job. He had no problem at all proving that he was qualified (by the little tests they gave him and projects). Out of 5 initial interviews, only 1 company passed on him because he had no college degree. 4 gave offers including FAANG companies. As a parent of an 18 year old at the time we were like “what the hell” since we were still getting over the not going to college thing, but also amazed that someone would pay this 18 year old non college educated kid 6 figures. He learned a lot in high school, a lot by self studying, doing his own online coding things/challenges, etc. To this day he doesn’t miss having gone to college at all, but that’s because he didn’t care about the social aspect. My other 3 are not skipping out on that opportunity thankfully and 2 of them are doing CS.
And 100% agree that for CS it’s no different than a lot of other areas and looking at college strength. Afterall, how many kids have any experience in anything to do with Mechanical Engineering (or other majors) and get accepted into those programs? What gets them in? Their strong math, science, rigor and general academic ability.
Bottom line, hard work. A lot of people see green when they go into CS but that doesn’t mean they’re capable or like it.
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Mine did competitive robotics all 4 years of HS. She didn’t get involved to boost admissions; she got into it because she loves to build and code. The leadership and competitions were just a result of her passion. She ultimately chose ME, but she continued coding for one of the university’s research projects and still does competitive robotics. I think her passion for her EC came across in her apps.
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For sure. You don’t do robotics for 4 years just to pad a resume. You do it because you enjoy it! And obviously she did since she went into ME! Congrats!
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Admissions are tough to define or create a yardstick for because nobody knows the “secret sauce” and every university is different. I think getting into a [vignan] https://vignan.ac.in university is a good place to study computer science.
university admissions standpoint, general academic strength, academic strength in math, and interest in the subject would be relevant (this may be where learning additional CS while in high school can help, in that it shows stronger interest in the subject).