In a real world situation, say student A and student B applied for the same job. Student A and B are both from very prestigious schools, but student B’s school has more GPA inflation. How will all this work out for the employer?
And compared to GPA, how important is work experience?
Does personality play a role?
How objective/subjective is the application process?
Are special abilities important?
Do I need “connections?”
Do I need a big butt? (jk here)
Relay all your worldly wisdom on me, please. I’m looking to make a decent living after college, make connections, and start my own company one day, so your tips would be mucho welcome.
GPA Inflation - My D2 goes to a school notorious for NO grade inflation (less than 10 4.0 graduates in the history of the college). She is getting lots of interviews as a sophomore for internships (and no one has even asked about GPA yet). Now… she is in a pretty employable major. If you really care about getting a job post-graduation, your major choice is pretty important. And you need a reasonable GPA.
And compared to GPA, how important is work experience? - It is very important to get summer experience during college that you can put on your resume. Hard to do sometimes after freshman year; my D2 ended up researching (paid) on campus with a professor after freshman year, and now has something beefier on her resume as she looks for internships after sophomore year. She will likely intern this summer and next summer. It definitely helps in job hunting after college, and she might even end up with an offer from one of her internship companies.
Does personality play a role? - Yes, of course. If you have to interview, it is going to play a role. My D2 is sort of a “cat behind the couch” type. She has been working hard to be friendlier and more approachable in interviews. Good that she is working on this for internships, she will be more practiced by the time she graduates. (D1 was born a "golden retriever’ and this is one of her greatest strengths in interviews – some people have to work at it more than others).
How objective/subjective is the application process? - Mmm… it depends on the company. But if your professors or older students can give you a recommendation, it can help you at least get the first interview. From there you need to make it or not on your own abilities, though. One thing to think about is what companies come to recruit at the colleges you are looking at. You should be able to find out some info via the career center website for the college.
Are special abilities important? - They can help. For example, my D2 researched on IT data storage & efficiency in I/O patterns last summer after freshman year. She is getting more interest from companies who build various kinds of storage than other companies this summer, although she still has some interviews with other types of companies. It also helps to get SOME kind of work experience before or during your time at college. My D1 landed a sweet paid deal teaching inner city kids in an academic program before freshman year of college. D2 night stocked at Walmart… both earned money for college, and both got a taste of working for someone who wasn’t their parent. Starting to build some of those workplace skills (even at Walmart!) is a good thing early on.
Do I need “connections?” - You can build some in college. Professors often know people in industry (former students, people who recruit at your college). Older students can help (D1 got her job that she loves when a student a year ahead of her told her that her company was hiring; D2 got an internship interview with a well-known tech company because one of her friends who graduated last year works there and help set it up). You don’t need to know people in Congress or titans of business. It does help to be good at making (and keeping) connections with your classmates, older students you meet, and your professors.
When D1 was applying for internship through campus recruiting, employers clearly stated what’s their minimum required GPA. D1 had to put on her application what her GPA and it had to be rounded to 2 decimal pts. Some employers even asked for SAT scores. For IB, top tier firms required 3.5 GPA.
I used to recruit college grads for my previous employer and I definitely looked at their GPA and their course work. Once they came in for interview, it was all about their personality and how well they answered questions. Some of those questions were brain teasers and some were more about their EQ.
The criteria employers focus on varies quite a bit from employer to employer and industry to industry. The OP didn’t list anything about what type of industry, employers, and jobs he will be looking for, which makes it difficult to give a specific answer. The page at http://www.maguireassoc.com/resource-items/employer-survey-results/ describes a survey given to hundreds of employers about the relative importance of different criteria for new grads a summary is below, from most to least important:
Internships -- 23
Employment During College -- 21
College Major -- 13
Volunteer Experience -- 12
Extracurricular Activities -- 10
Relevance of Coursework -- 8
College GPA -- 8
College Reputation -- 5
As a general rule, work experience and interview performance are more important than GPA, although some companies have a cutoff GPA for considering applicants and/or use GPA as a filter. When I applied for my first job out of college in engineering, I did not list my GPA on my resume. It wasn’t bad, I just didn’t know it was common to list GPA on your resume. Nevertheless, people I gave my resume to at career fairs had a positive response and usually later after reviewing the resume offered to interview me, including payment for travel, hotel, car rental, etc. I didn’t do as well in the interviews, although I did get some quality job offers. In retrospect, I would have done better to focus more on improving social/people/conversational skills for the interviews, as that was a weakpoint at the time.
If you’re trying to have a job offer in hand by graduation, try to get to know the people at your on-campus recruiting office. Like professors that other posters have mentioned, they often have connections with employers and more than that they know when employers are coming to campus for career fairs, mock interviews, and other useful events like that. If your industry has professional societies or honor societies those can also be useful networking tools at well since I know that alumni who often get roped into speaking at their events for recruiting purposes. You don’t have to limit yourself to just those sources but it’s a great starting point in my experience.
(Your career center can also clear up things about resume conventions that are industry-specific, such as whether or not to include your GPA on resumes…)
What I’ve always been told is that getting to the interview tends to be more mechanical/“objective” than actually getting the job. When they’re deciding whether or not to offer you an interview, they usually don’t know much about you other than what’s on your resume and maybe what’s on a recommendation letter (if they ask for one, which they might not) or a fleeting impression of you among a sea of faces in a career fair. Some employers may have a formula or a process when they decide who to interview and who to turn down at that point.
Once you get the interview though that’s when your interpersonal skills become more important. Most companies don’t interview candidates who aren’t qualified on paper, so really what the interview is about is trying to see if you would really fit in with the company. At least where I work, most of the interviewers are line employees – managers, senior managers, and directors – not HR personnel. They’re not just looking for someone who is competent but someone who they would want to have on a project team and work with during a busy season.
@Data10’s list is interesting. I think it is difficult to rank these criteria by importance because they are all interconnected. I am approaching this subject from 2 directions. One - from my D’s recent internship search as a sophomore. Two - from doing recruiting dinners with my husband over the years.
The college you attend does matter in that companies tend to establish relationships with certain schools. Then within those schools, the major of the applicant not only establishes a knowledge base, it can also serve as a pre-screening tool.
Internships are very good to future employers, not only because you have work experience, but again because someone else has already done some of the pre-screening. <<<I hope that makes sense.
Anyway, my D was able to get a very good internship for the summer, because of 3 things - her GPA, her EC activities and her interview. I don’t think she would have been offered it, if she didn’t attend a good school, gotten good grades and proved how capable she is through her ECs.
That list is a good checklist for crafting a solid resume.
There’s no one way to get a job. You need to interview some and find out what companies are looking for.
I was headed to graduate school, but I got curious about what was happening out in the real world and dropped by a university job fair. A couple reps pounced and before you know it I was flying coast to coast to interviews and whatnot. Not a bad “vacation” for a struggling Senior. At the most well known place, lots of rigamarole, tours, more interviews, etc. and then, they tell me I have to pass the master committee. We crowd into a conference room with the senior researchers and everything gets real quiet. What’s the question they ask?
“So, how good of a softball catcher are you, really?”
In addition to the things you talked about in your post, pay some attention to the logistics of hunting for a job after college.
Do some research – online or with the aid of your college’s career center – to find out what types of jobs you’re interested in and qualified for.
Then, find out how and when people apply for those jobs.
For some types of jobs, on-campus recruiting is your best friend – and it may take place astonishingly early.
In certain career fields, many of the entry-level jobs go to people who had internships at the company/organization the summer between their junior and senior years, which means that serious recruiting for an after-graduation job begins in the middle of junior year, when applications for those internships become available.
For other types of jobs, where internships don’t play a role, recruiting happens at different times during your senior year of college, and may even start the summer before.
Don’t be one of those people who doesn’t start thinking about getting a job until graduation or a few weeks before. Yes, it’s still possible to get a job at that time, but a lot of good possibilities will have passed you by if you wait that long.
Just apply to many places and never pretend to be somebody else at interview. Something will come up where they would feel that you fit into their environment (you possess certain set of skill and traits of character that will work for them.). I was unemployed 9 times, found the employment in all 9 times in a very economically depressed city, I could not relocate. If you can relocate, then the sky is a limit. Never name of my school played any role, employers in the departments that I was applying mostly hire locally.
Best wishes! Oh, yes, most of my job I found using ads in local Nespaper. They say that chances of that are about 2%, worked for me in most of my cases. Do not listen too much to others, they do not know, I do not know your specific situation, why would you listen to me?
Wow… As a project manager, I bet I would not find ONE job listing a year in the local paper these days, yet there are literally hundreds if not thousands of jobs in my market open every year. I see nursing jobs in the paper still, but very little else. Use Linkedin, Monster, and I am sure others can list more. That is just last century to expect any job listings in the local paper.
But use your college’s on-campus recruiting system, too, not just these web sites. You may find jobs listed in the on-campus recruiting system that aren’t on the Web and vice versa.
I’m surprised by the ranking of GPA on the cited survey. As others have mentioned, that can vary by industry or company. When one of my kids was looking for a job with a Big 4 accounting firm it was commonly believed that no one with a GPA below 3.5 would be considered. Perhaps that has changed. When another was hired by a major engineering company, the unwritten rule required a 3.75+ GPA and relevant internships. Later, that employer would not consider any new grads with a GPA less than 3.9.
None of the employers my kids talked with asked about volunteer work or extracurricular activities. In contrast, decades ago I was asked about my tennis game and/or golf handicap in several interviews.
My kids’ school career office was not much help, but their former professors were very helpful. One in particular provided valuable contacts. One kid was mainly helped by dh’s professional contacts.
I agree with intparent about personality. My kids are naturally introverted. They practiced greeting people with a firm handshake, good eye contact and a smile. They rehearsed interviewing to help calm their nerves. They were surprised that they “faked it” so well that they received positive feedback about their confident yet relaxed demeanor.
@Vladenschlutte: okay, if you say so. It’s in the top 10% of Fortune 500 companies. I’m not an engineer so perhaps there’s a more accurate way to characterize it than “major.”
Due to hiring freezes and RIFs over the past 6 - 8 years the number of new grad hires has been smaller than before, at least in the three geographic areas of the company I know a little about. The GPA comments were shared by several of offspring’s managers. Perhaps they were speaking only of their own groups’ practices. It was assumed that since there were many more applicants than available positions, the company could well afford to be choosier.
In this day and age, many resumes get screened either digitally, looking for key words, or by a screener. OP- what field are you looking into? Look at the online jobs sites (monster, careerbuilder, indeed, etc) and see what the buzzwords are that are used for your field. Incorporate them into your resume. Make sure your resume sings your skills, and yes, yes yes-- get an internship during college if at ALL possible. And use every contact possible- career office, alum network, etc. Its often who you know, not what you know, that will open a door. Good luck, and don’t waste your time with the local newspaper ads.
Hi everyone, OP here. Thanks for all your advices.
I’m actually just a senior in high school. I’ll be majoring in mechanical engineering, and attending Columbia University SEAS next year. I guess from what I’ve heard, the engineering curriculum might be on the tougher end, and so most students take humanities to better their GPA. This is kinda troubling, ha, but no doubt Columbia’s connection to New York City would behoove me well.
So far I’ve noticed some recurring things that popped up:
Work experience matters the most. GPA, I guess not so much, but there is a cut off.
The real concern is how can I totally distinguish myself? If someone takes a look at my resume, how do they get the sense that “omg we need this guy.” What is that magic quality? :~
