Californian student at public HS, what can I do to improve my chances at an ivy/mit/stanford or t20?
APs (planning on): bio, chem, physics I, physics II, calc bc, lang, lit, spanish, csp, csa, apush, gov/econ
so far got a PSAT of 1500, and have not taken SAT yet
extracurriculars:
very competitive chess player (nationally top 5 in age/gender group) won some big tournaments
panel level piano
d1 sport team at school
volunteering teaching chess to kids in community & neurodivergent kids (autism)
volunteering at hospital
currently trying to explore academic world a bit more, but not sure where to go.
Are you a junior? What’s your GPA? Generally, you can improve your chances by having perfect grades, amazing essays, meaningful extracurriculars, some leadership, and perhaps a bit of luck - but it’s hard to chance anyone to schools that accept <10% of applicants but get tens of thousands of highly-qualified applicants. The good news is that if you’re competitive for Ivys/Stanford, etc., there should be other great schools that accept you even if those don’t.
Thank you for your response! I’m currently a sophomore and have a 4.0 UW. Right now I’m looking for some academic ECs to find passion and see what I’m “into.”
You should read the “applying sideways” blog on the MIT admissions web site. As I understand it, the recommendation is that you do whatever is right for you, then, whatever you do, do it well. This is what my family has done and it has worked well for us (including admissions at the “top 20 / MIT / Stanford / Ivy” level).
However, this also sounds like what you are already doing.
These are both very good.
Again this sounds like you are already doing what is right for you and doing it very well.
The other things that I might add are that when the time comes look for schools that are a good fit for you, make sure that you apply to safeties, and keep your budget in mind.
Ivy League schools and MIT and Stanford and similar highly ranked schools are very difficult to predict for admissions. However, if you are competitive for these top schools (and it looks like you might be) then there will be lots and lots of other very good colleges and universities which would be very happy to have you as a student.
I might also add that when I was a graduate student at Stanford the other students in the same graduate program had come from a very, very wide range of universities. A lot of them had come from their in-state public universities. Other people who I know who have studied in highly ranked graduate degrees have said the same thing. For many of us a bachelor’s degree from an in-state public university plus a master’s from Stanford might for example be less expensive than just a bachelor’s degree from a top 20 school (unless you qualify for very good need based financial aid, or some other scholarship in the case of the few top ranked schools that offer other types of aid).
Between chess, piano, and a team sport, these are all very good ECs. Tutoring / teaching kids is also a very good EC. You do not need to add any additional “academic” EC.
It is fine to try something else, but do it only because you want to try something else, and only if you want to. Definitely do not do any additional EC for the intended purpose of getting accepted to a highly ranked university.
Be cautious about doing too much, and understand that classes are likely to get tougher as you get further into your education. Also during your junior and senior year of high school things like visiting universities and filling out applications and studying for the SAT are likely to take quite a bit of time and effort.
I’d just add that you may want to start thinking about schools more specifically as to which ones may fit you the best and vice versa. Within the abbreviated categories people throw out there (T20, Ivies, etc.), the schools are vastly different from each other in terms of culture, scale, academic diversity, physical setting, etc.
Great grades, test, ECs. You’re on a great path.
Keep being you but be authentic - don’t take classes or do ECs just bcuz.
One thing your family will have to decide is budget. Do they want to spend $100k a year. Unless you have need as the colleges determine it, that will be an impediment.
There’s tons of great schools out there and lots of top kids at them.
Keep up the good work but if you stumble, don’t panic.
Do you have some idea what you want to study at college? Why the focus on Ivies/Top 20… is it the status, the networking potential, or do you think the quality of education at a T20 school is really better than a T30 or even a T50?
you seem like you are doing great! I agree with others to consider fit…a lot of Top 20s are quite different from each other…you may be happy at all, but likely not.
Great you have taken Bio/Physics/Chem and Calc. Don’t underestimate foreign language. many top schools really want to see 4 years (or equivalent). I think this blog College Admissions Blog | Sara Harberson is very well done, for most part. It is written by very experienced admissions officers…
So there is no formula, these colleges are looking to put together a mix of different students, not all of one sort of student.
That said, as another poster also suggested, this may be the best overall summary I have seen (best in the sense that the many other things I have seen admissions officers for a variety of colleges say on these subjects seem fairly summarized here):
That whole article is definitely worth carefully considering, but here is the core summary:
Do well in school. Take tough classes. Interrogate your beliefs and presumptions. Pursue knowledge with dogged precision. Because it is better to be educated and intelligent than not.
Be nice. This cannot be overstated. Don’t be wanton or careless or cruel. Treat those around you with kindness. Help people. Contribute to your community.
Pursue your passion. Find what you love, and do it. Maybe it’s a sport. Maybe it’s an instrument. Maybe it’s research. Maybe it’s being a leader in your community. Math. Baking. Napping. Hopscotch. Whatever it is, spend time on it. Immerse yourself in it. Enjoy it.
I will add as my two cents that a lot of the kids I encounter online seem to have “Do well in school” well in hand, and they at least have a good foundation for “Pursue your passion,” although they may need to think a little bit more in terms of focusing on fewer things as opposed to trying to check a lot of boxes.
But “Be nice,” in contrast, seems to very often be neglected entirely, or perhaps is being treated as a check box. Like, I will start a nonprofit, and that will check the “Be nice” box, right? Or I will cover this in an essay. Or so on. But what they are not really doing is what MIT is advising here, namely integrating being consistently kind and helpful to the people around you in all your regular interactions.
So personally, I think if you sort of want to “stand out” among all the very smart, ambitious, and highly qualified people applying to these colleges, most of whom will end up rejected, you might be able to stand out a bit by actually taking “Be nice” just as seriously as everything else.
And it sounds like you are doing some relevant volunteering, which is good. But again I would suggest you think much broader than that, and really think about how you are interacting with others across your whole life.
The biggest thing you can do to boost your chances for T20 admissions is to expand your definition of “T20”. I’ve always thought that there are probably 30-40 T20 colleges and universities and it pays to familiarize yourself with them now, before you get too caught up in the “hurry up and wait” of the traditional admissions cycle. Get a leg up on colleges you may never have heard of, colleges like Hamilton in Upstate New York (beautiful campus in a bucolic part of the northeast); Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg, VA (physically imposing university campus with first-rate offerings in STEM); Washington University, in St. Louis (often confused with UWashington, but really an Ivy-lookalike, judging from the architecture); Grinnell College (another academically impeccable LAC, but in the Midwest.) There are a lot, lot more, eleven are in the New England Small College (NESCAC) Conference alone: NESCAC Spoken Here: - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums
This is great advice, and I in fact would go even higher! It all depends on what you are looking for, but there are a lot of excellent public research universities which also offer a classic big college experience, a lot of excellent private research universities offering a somewhat different college experience, a lot of excellent LACs offering a different experience still, a lot of excellent engineering colleges, the service academies, non-US colleges that still have a lot of US students . . . .
Of course you should get your own list down to a manageable number, and you can exclude some or all of the colleges in some of these categories based on your own personal preferences.
But the total set of colleges that could plausibly be on at least a decent number of kids’ personal top twenty lists is pretty big.
Yes. There may be even more depending upon your definition of “top 20”.
One issue is that there are a many, many universities that are very good for a bachelor’s degree. There are well over 20 universities that show up in the top 20 on some ranking or other. The top 20 LACs will all also provide a very good education, and a top LAC can be just as strong for a bachelor’s degree as any university.
Also, which university counts as “top 20” will depend upon your major. This is particularly true for graduate programs. As one example one daughter is currently studying for a DVM. The top 2 ranked universities in the US are UC Davis and Colorado State (with Cornell being a close 3rd). Neither UC Davis nor Colorado State will rank in the top 20 overall (CSU is not in the top 100 overall), but both are superb for veterinary medicine. Similarly I have a relative who majored in dance. The top universities for dance might not be the top universities overall (Julliard for example being superb). We could probably come up with a very, very long list of other majors where the top universities for that major are not the same as the top universities overall.
There could be hundreds of colleges and universities that might be among the best 20 for some very specific major, or for some very specific student.
Which suggests that you should keep an open mind and look for schools that are a good fit for you.
To the extent that you have a preference for top-n schools, it might benefit you to consider this with universities and colleges included. As an approach to this, you may generate ideas from browsing general rankings. WalletHub, for example, offers appealing suggestions well beyond what you may find on a single, narrower list, such as through U.S. News:
Nonetheless, if you maintain an affinity for ultra-selective schools, then you can find them in this site with examples such as UPenn, #24; Amherst, #25; Pomona, #30; and Cornell, #31.
Based on your username, I think you’re into chess
The strong chess players among the students I know are interested in all academic subjects; however, more are into STEM subjects than Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences (HASS). You have potential to excel in all academic subjects, so you can pick any one to put more effort on. However, if there’s a teacher you feel connected to, or if there are other students you enjoy hanging out with, those could be additional incentives to balance the hard work you have to do.
Keep up your good work teaching kids chess. This could expand to bigger things.
Re: ECs….do what you love and it will shine. Don’t try to do ECs because you think they will impress an adcom at some elite college. Do them for your own personal growth and knowledge.
I agree. I’m not sure why you would need to add more. Commitment is important…more important than having a longer list of ECs.
And lastly, don’t get locked into top 20 colleges. Sure…aim high, that’s fine. But also have some very realistic colleges on your list for admission and affordability that you like.
Most students’ main constraint on college choice is financial. Only within cost limits will your admission credentials (academics, extracurriculars, essays, recommendations) matter. Have your parents assured you that they will pay list price (closing in on $100k per year at some private colleges) or that the colleges’ net price calculators show affordability?
Thank you! I will definitely look into your suggestions. I’m asking because I see many people around me doing research, olympiad competitions, etc. and it seems like a “requirement” to do great in academic areas outside of school to be able to get into top schools.
Thank you for your response! I am asking about “academic” ECs because I would like to see what field I would like to go into (STEM) and see what I’m good at. Also it seems like “everyone” around me is involved in research, olympiads, etc.
