How can you help your shy Asian son thrive?

Parents Forum
21

Ditto on many good ideas in this thread. Definitely discuss your concerns with his guidance counselor this spring. Being Asian (Indian, Chinese or another culture) does not mean being unable to thrive in the American school system (my H is Indian and know many), especially if he is growing up here.

Have you asked your son for any reasons for the change in grades? Find out what his perceptions are. As others state, there is the possibility of some kind of learning problem that the school can diagnose and help him with. Depression could be another cause. Fear of failure and perfectionism could be catching up with him.

Being introverted does NOT preclude all extracurricular activities. My introverted son enjoyed bein gin his orchestra, academic teams and cross country running (a sport all kids were able to do the running regardless of being good at it). Others may enjoy chess. Introverts need “down time” but do enjoy being with others like them (not extroverts like me who need social interaction). I went to some lectures given by our school years ago. One speaker on introversion (75% of the population is extroverted, although the converse is true of the highly gifted) who was a teacher spoke of how she needed her down time alone when she had free periods when most of the other teachers would socialize.

It is healthy to have a mix of academics and other activities. Five hours a night seems excessive and I’d wonder how productive those hours actually were (kids can stall, play computer games and a lot of other stuff when supposedly studying).

Just changing schools will not fix the problem. Talk to your son and see what he thinks the problem is. You need to identify the underlying reasons for the changes to treat them and not just change schools in the hope thongs will work. The guidance counselor’s job is to help you and your son in this.

22

There is a lot of pressure against introversion, but in the adult world, it’s far less of a problem. Many, many career paths are suitable for introverts, and there’s nothing “wrong” with people who tend towards introversion. I’m a pretty extreme extrovert, but I have lots of introverted friends, and their tendencies don’t ever stand in the way of our friendships.

23

Tell me about it. I never understood why people consider being an introvert as something that needs fixing.

24

re above- the same reason people thing so many other things need fixing- religion, culture… People have not been taught there are many right ways- there is the best way to strive for. A lot of information came too late for me to understand my son’s needs when he was growing up. It also would have helped me understand myself. Awareness for the majority that not all people operate under the same intrinsic ways has finally been researched and documented. Deciding what is normal depends on realizing that more than one norm exists. This is also happening for other variations of being human- eg homosexuality and other issues. One size doesn’t fit all!

25

What stands out for me here is not the introversion, which certainly does not have to be a problem, but the fact that here is a kid who spends 5 hours holed up in his room doing homework, and is getting C’s after straight A’s the year before. Humanities in high school seem to present a problem.

Either the school work has changed, or something about the kid has changed.

So change the school, or evaluate the kid. Or both.

I thought the suggestion that he might be doing something else, like video games, was an interesting one…

So glad the parent and son are having conversations. When all is said and done, the relationship is the best tool for addressing problems at this age.

ps I have friends who never spoke in class and did fine. Granted, this young man is not seeking help, but that is not uncommon and in 9th grade, involvement by a parent is still tolerated by the school, to some extent anyway. If extra help is needed, there are coaches (online or in person) as well as tutors. But first, what is going on?!

26

FWIW, our school has similar amount of work for kids with a full rigorous load. If you have ECs and rehearsals/practices then it’s impossible to get recommended amount of sleep.

27

Feel for you - you are probably on a fairly challenging path ahead.

I have had the opportunity to work with a lot (usually highly gifted) teens and a shift in performance at this age is both not unusual and often difficult to assess.

So the basic scan:

It can be physical / chemical imbalance / strange kinds of thyroid issues / diet issues / gluten issues. All of these can put a kid into a brain fog and literally limit his capacities. Is he always struggling - or does it vary? If it varies, what activity / diet / etc correlates to those ups and downs?

It can be depression - from alientation, gender / sexuality issues / lack of friends / or with the highly gifted an existential angst born of thinking too much about an uncertain future. It is, unfortunately the case that he will most likely not share his issues with you. Does he have another adult in his life that you trust? He may share with you - but typically only to assuage your concern - not to share the real issue. He may not even be aware of the core issue causing the depression.

It can be learning disabilities. At this age some kids grow out of them and some are only starting to show evidence of learning issues - either because the learning issues are only now emerging - or because your son was able to compensate until the course content got more difficult.

Hard to know where to start:

First, I would find a way to discover if he is actually working 5 hours night on homework, or it just appears he is. Take him to a coffee shop so you and he can “both get some work done” and watch and see where the time goes. If he is truly working that many hours, he may be developing some processing issues / or brain fog issues and you could focus on diet, learning issues, etc.

You may want to get some testing done (sorry - will be several thousand dollars). Key point: you are NOT testing for grade equivalent learning, you want someone to test for disparities between his IQ and his academic performance. The gap tells us if there is a learning issue. The testor who says, “no problem, he is just about at grade level,” doesn’t understand. And yes, IQ tests are not always accurate, achievement tests are full of holes - but the point is to look for gaps between his intelligence and his performance.

Second, depression seems likely - regardless of physical, social, or emotional causes – when your future is looking bleak, and you are adolescent, depression is an easy slope to slide… Get him outside - literally, it often does wonders - and keep it up for a couple weeks. And keep looking for activities to engage him - try something unusual? Fencing perhaps?

If none of that helps get a professional involved - be careful with doctors suggesting anti-depressants - they often help, and can also literally make the depression much worse. Therapeutic counseling can work wonders – but expect to try out several doctors to find a person your son can trust / relate to. Sorry, this is just going to take a lot of time and a lot of false starts.

Consider an Outward Bound or NOLS program. Sometimes they need to get away from their own family to grow on their own… or they just need a seriously different change of scene.

Obviously we don’t know your family situation - how much time you have to focus on these issues, finances, other children, etc., but now is the time to get really serious about finding a solution if you can. It may take a couple years.

** And fundamentally, your son’s emotional health is WAY more important than grades, or even what year in school he is in.** Please, on behalf of families and kids I have worked with, and some who have lost kids to suicide, or just destructive cycles, re-read that sentence again. Take it to heart - and apologies from me for being pushy.

You may need to take him out of school for a year. Unschool, homeschool, travel. Get your kid back. Then worry about grades and schools and college. If he falls apart now, none of that will be successful anyway.

If he can find his way back to himself, then being a “year behind” will matter to no one.

All of this writing from me because you are describing a situation that is well beyond having a little trouble in school…

One more piece - think about to what extent you can engage your kid in this whole discussion and effort to get back on path. Some kids need to be directly involved in this work, and some need their parents to do all the kinds of stuff above, but want it to be done for them, but don’t want to talk about directly. I can’t know… but try and think through your best route with your son.

Finally, I am a huge advocate of “mom’s intuition” if you don’t feel right about suggestions from a school, a doctor, etc. trust that sense. Not blindly, but it is most often right.

Good luck - this is not an easy road ahead. May you be as tenacious as your son is worth the effort.

28

@atSugarlessCandy, OP writes very articulately in English, so even if her son’s mother tongue is not English, it seems likely that he has grown up in an English-rich, if not perfectly fluent environment.

I’m sure your response is just meant to be helpful, but I hope you’re not assuming that because someone is racially Asian that English is probably not the first language…a possiblility, in this case, yes,( just as someone with African ancestry might speak Swahili or Hausa…but we don’t tend to assume it in that case.)

Don’t want to take this thread off on a tangent, just sayin’. This is the type of thing that tends to segregate people of Asian descent into the assumed “foreigner” category in a way that other ethnic groups don’t automatically tend to get as much…leading to the feeling of being permanent foreigners in our culture. I have some experience with this, as we adopted our daughter from China. Imagine your American-raised kid having to experience others telling her she can’t be a “real” American, or a stranger saying “you speekie English?” That, in itself, could cause some sensitive souls to become more shy (or more aggressive.)

Just an aside, that’s all. Don’t want to derail this discussion…

29

Someone I know well who is a professor at a very good small university told me recently that he thought that most of his smartest and most thoughtful students have had an episode of depression at some point. I am not sure whether “most” is a slight exaggeration, but definitely depression is common. I am quite sure that this can affect highly intelligent, shy, thoughtful, articulate and polite teenagers without any regard for what ethnic or racial group they happened to have be born into.

I just re-watched the movie “Race to Nowhere” last night. When I first saw it years ago it I had trouble knowing how accurate it was. After seeing two daughters go through high school, and watching their friends and acquaintances and events of various kinds, the movie seems to be pretty much right on.

I have seen and/or heard of cases of such kids blossoming very well once the underlying problem is diagnosed and treated. From what I have heard this seems to include many very famous and very successful people.

30

^^ I have also read that highly intelligent people often have higher levels of anxiety than average. This makes sense to me…if your brain is capable of perceiving a lot of information, and spends a lot of time trying to reconcile seemingly conflicting facts and ideas, it may be overwhelming.

I wonder if the study of science/math is reassuring to this boy, not because it’s easier (it isn’t) but because math/science speaks a rational language, and uses orderly, progressive methods. The study of language, literature, and history is somewhat subjective, and can seem chaotic and unpredictable. Humanities lead some very rational people to have a hard time knowing how to deal with the endless factors that don’t seem to lead to any logical conclusion. He may be intelligent enough to not want to accept the status-quo conclusions presented at school. Maybe he thinks in a more complex way than the assessment tools measure at his grade level…not overthinking, necessarily, but overthinking, given the situation of the classroom. I used to do very poorly on multiple choice tests in the humanities, for example, because I could think of situations (erroneously or not) in which a wrong answer or two COULD be true. I had to learn the knack of simplifying. Wonder if this is could be what OP’s son is doing.

I also spent years in lonely introspection as a teen…reading, reading, reading (homework, not so much)… but much of this was because of parents who didn’t want me to leave the house and disapproved of most teen-centered socializing. It did put me behind socially, for years. I do agree it’s important to honor his natural introversion (if that’s the case) but to also learn skills for navigating and enjoying activities out in the world and dealing early with any social anxiety he might have. Maybe robotics, chess, science clubs, trivia teams, etc., could give him outlets with like-minded people. What about pets? Dogs can bring out the happiest and most tender emotions in many people, while involvement in dog-training and agility clubs can be really fun!

31

The description of the OP’s son makes me think of language-based learning disabilities. Before you do anything, you should have him tested. It’s not unusual for kids to be diagnosed as late as high school. Testing will be expensive, but it will give you answers. If there is an issue, you need to get some support IMMEDIATELY. Otherwise, these grades will continue throughout high school and into college, causing a lot of anxiety and depression, which he may already have. Being introverted is not necessarily a bad thing, but when it’s caused by anxiety and depression, then you need to address it.

He needs to be able to interact with others, both in class projects and in outside activities because he’ll need those skills later on in life. Plus, it’s a very lonely existence. If he’s not, it may not be just because he’s shy. I was a shy kid too, and so are both of my kids, but we all participated in sports and clubs. Serious social anxiety, however, can be paralyzing and cause a person to avoid groups and social activities. Hopefully, he has at least a few friends he feels comfortable with and is not spending all of his time doing homework. BTW, when they test for learning disabilities, there is usually a psychological evaluation as well, probably because these issues can go hand in hand.

32

This is an off-the-wall ideal but I’ve see it work with shy kids. I suggest your son take a drama class or try out for a school play. Often, introverts are able to step out of their comfort zone when they are put in the position of having to play another character. Your son might find that he enjoys acting and could end up with a group of drama friends as well. Drama kids are very accepting, IME.

33

Ditto drama or sports or both! Drama kids are incredibly accepting and I have seen a really shy kid blossom on my son’s tennis team. A smaller school could also be a good idea. You are an awesome parent for helping your son!

34

Crazy thought but have you had his vision checked lately?

35

My younger daughter is very introverted and a bit shy. She works very hard for her grades.

She also doesn’t transition well, and so had a bad year starting middle school and starting high school. She is doing well her sophomore year. That said, she is in a very good private school where the classes are small and the teachers attentive. I think she would be lost in a big school. I worry about her transition to college . . .

36

mamalion- don’t worry about college. So much growing/maturing will happen in the next few years. Plus, she’ll get to choose a school that suits her more than the one size fits all HS experience. I worried about my son who never heard the loud alarm clock we parents heard down the hall- he had no trouble being responsible in college.

OP- I see a trend here. You need to get an evaluation done. Checking to see if that 5 hours is truly study time is a start. Getting the school’s input for any testing they can do is another. Just changing schools may not be the answer- the same underlying issues will follow him.

37

@katliamom How big is your son’s high school? I think you are on the right track thinking about transferring him to a smaller school. My daughter is a junior in a 2500+ student high school. I have learned that a student’s willingness to advocate for herself can often make the difference between a B and an A, especially in the more “subjective” subjects such as English and History. In a big school, there are all kinds of teachers. Some will refuse to round up a 89.49 to an A even if the student had missed several weeks of class due to illness, while others will “gift” 10+ points on a final quarterly grade to her favorite student for “trying hard”. It can be very intimidating to approach a teacher in such an environment. I think a smaller school, where there are fewer “superstars” or “troublemakers”, can provide a more nurturing/calmer environment where your son can start to learn to speak up for himself.

And definitely continue to encourage him to engage with his peers and his teachers. Some people have pointed out possibility of depression or ADHD. I think that’s a possibility and could be the reason why he has trouble focusing. Many kids are not diagnosed until high school age.

38

Is your son being bullied at school? Make sure he isn’t. Bullied kids often feel ashamed of themselves for being bullied, and are reluctant to admit it.