How CC helped me help my D

I want to start this off with a big “Thank You” to everyone who has contributed to the wealth of information on these forums. I learned a lot from you all and hope maybe in the future someone else can learn from this post. I’ve purposefully kept it a bit light on details on the schools and ECs, in order to focus on the actual lessons learned during the process. Maybe others can add their lessons on to this.

So here’s how CC helped me guide my kiddo through the college application process:

1 – I came to accept that my amazing daughter is one of approximately 45,853 amazing kids who are graduating this year. And they all wanted to go to the same top schools. I learned about hooked kids, recruited athletes and pointy kids - and that she really wasn’t any of these. At first, it was hard to take, (“But my snowflake really is special!”) but I think it was for the best because it made both of us realize just how competitive admission was to top colleges and that she was going to have to work on it if she really wanted it.

2 – I’d heard of safety, match and reach schools, but it wasn’t until I dug through these forums that I really and truly came to understand what it meant to select them and how important the NPC was in picking which ones to apply to. The list of potential schools got shorter as D agreed to only apply to one school that was both an academic and financial reach where there was a remote possibility of a scholarship. No reason to spend time and money on schools that weren’t financially feasible.

3 – I was motivated to get a little more involved in research and guiding my D. I felt justified after learning about all the professional counselors, essay proofreaders, and tutors, etc. that people hire. Was also surprised that some schools even have helpful GCs (not ours!). I mostly just guided D, but I did get hands on for that @#! Zee Mee profile that one school wanted.She picked what pictures and artwork she wanted included, recorded a video, and I did the photographing of artwork and uploading of everything. She just had to type descriptions of everything. (Side lesson - I don't think it made a darn lick of a difference to have the ZeeMee profile.)

4 – I learned the importance of awards and recognition outside of school and passed that on to D. Painting was always a personal thing for D, but one day she told me she'd entered a competition outside of school. She also told me she was going to put more effort into MUN in order to win a delegate award. She was successful and it did give her something to report on her update from an ED deferral.

5 – This is probably the biggest impact on her acceptances – I was able to figure out how to help my child package herself. Research told me she was likely to get dinged for academic rigor. Throughout high school, she has taken a bunch of art classes (but never AP art), theatre classes, and study halls. She also had some really scattered ECs and I believed some of them would have been considered "padding." (A term I learned from CC.) I stressed quality over quantity when listing her ECs. She created a giant EC of "visual and performing arts" (with a nice write up mentioning how important the arts were in her life). She pared down the list of ECs to include only ones she had actually done something with and/or were in line with her intended field of study and showed that in the tiny space they give you for descriptions. It gave her application focus it otherwise might not have had.

6 – And probably the biggest impact on her future - Through these forums, I was introduced to schools that hadn’t previously been on my radar. Let’s face it, there are many good schools and programs out there that just don’t get the press that they deserve. One of those schools turned out to be a good fit for my D, and they awarded her a full ride.

One more I’ll add that is a lesson I learned the hard way that will actually help the next kiddo in line:

7 – I learned that by the beginning of Junior year, we should have had a plan for when to take ACT, SAT, etc. This is one area where we went wrong and I wished I’d found CC earlier in the process. Waited until Spring of Junior year to take the SAT for the first time. Heck, we didn’t even learn about the SAT IIs until the end of May Junior year. (Did I mention the school GC is no help?) This caused a scramble and undue stress when she had to sacrifice an SAT retake for the SAT IIs in order to meet the ED deadline.

Overall, it was a heck of a journey (that started with wanting to be an engineer, moved to only wanting a tiny LAC, to looking at a school in the SEC, a surprise love of an Ivy, a last-minute decision to get a minor in a language a lot of colleges don’t offer, and other twists and turns) and I can’t imagine we’d be at the same place without CC.

Love this! Thanks for sharing and congratulations to you and your daughter!!

Awesome thread. I am lucky to have found this site sooner than most of the parents here. April 6th will be my 1 year anniversary on CC and I am getting ready to start a thread on what I have learned in the past 12 months as an expat living in this country. This board is a great resource for everything. Not only college stuff but also about the real life itself. Can’t thank all other parents who have helped me tremendously in the past 12 years. I will stop hijacking your thread and share most of the stuff in my thread which I will start in 2 days at my 1 year anniversary.

So where did she end up?

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LOL :smiley:

I guess it helps to know how successful she was on her apps:

She was admitted to UPenn (rejected from Huntsman program but accepted to CAS), Duke, Ole Miss (Croft Institute, Honors College, awarded Stamps Scholarship), Miami U (Honors and Scholars, just shy of full tuition awarded), Ole Miss (Stamps Scholarship), Valparaiso (Chancellor’s scholarship), Seton Hall (awarded three scholarships), and waitlisted at American University.

A brief on stats: top 6% of class, 35 ACT (one sitting) 3.9 UW if we generously round up, very lackluster SAT Subject tests, especially Math. Will have taken a total of 6 AP classes + 2 dual enrollment (school offers so many AP classes that this is actually low).

I think she’s going to end up at Ole Miss although she is still enamored with UPenn. Can’t see how to justify paying so much more and having to take loans when she has a full ride+ through Stamps. Those are the only two she’s considering at this point.

I think you’re being wise!

The Washington Post did a pretty negative story about CC recently. I was disappointed, because I spent about 15 minutes telling the reporter about its positives. So I just sent your OP to her! I know it won’t make any difference, but she should get the point.

@MaineLonghorn - i also spent quite a while talking to her and my post upstream basically mirrors what you are saying. I am from the DMV and I am very disappointed. But I rarely read the Post anymore. I used to read it almost every day and in its entirety with my coffee on Sundays morning. No more.

@SuburbMom, just read through your posts. Such a wonderful woman who deserves the finest education in the world. You as parents must be extremely proud of your highly talented daughter. I understand your concerns on FA from Penn but my understanding is that Penn calculates the number based upon your family financial data. As you probably know, Penn is one of the most generous colleges in terms of FA. I believe that your D will be experiencing a total different 4 yrs college in her most beautiful time period in her life between Penn and Ole Miss. She will be able quickly pay off the money she needs for Penn after graduation. Just my 2 cents. By the way, is she in the Quaker days at Penn this week?

@J2H239 She visited Penn previously and is not attending Quaker Days. All schools have a formula for calculating what they perceive your family’s need to be based off your financial data. I happen to feel that an EFC that’s over 40% of take home pay (even adding in interest and dividend income) is unrealistic. Based on other posts from people in our income bracket ($100K - $150K), I am not alone in feeling that “upper middle class squeeze” on college costs.

Editing to add: Yes, the experience at Ole Miss and Penn will be very different. Ole Miss has some definite pluses. D feels professors are more accessible in the Honors College and Croft than they are at Penn. She also likes that she’s already on a first name basis (his nickname actually) with the dean of the Honors College and that she’s been invited to join the Chancellor’s Leadership Class. She’s also spoken with the Chancellor on campus and over the phone. She loved how engaged all students were at Penn, but there are engaged students at Ole Miss as well.

@SuburbMom, I totally understand what you have been experiencing. We have a similar (if not identical) situation with you last year. S fortunately was admitted to Penn, other elite Ivies and a flagship state college with very generous Stamp Scholarship (>>full-ride). At 11:57pm on May 1, 2016, he committed to Penn following his heart and we as parents also support his decisions. Penn will provide unimaginable opportunities/resources for students in there and beyond…

I believe that your gifted D will make her decisions which would be supported by you also.

Just saw your update: the reality is that something provided by Penn never ever can be offered by Ole Miss, a nice school. There is no limitation to your D at Penn.

I know you have served as her GC and some of your post contains pronouns that indicate joint effort. But at this point, can you afford to let your daughter decide? UPenn is an amazing school with an amazing alumni network. I am surprised there is not more financial aid at your income level: certain other Ivies have aid up to that level with payment of 10% of costs. I really hope she can attend Quaker Days: it is very different visiting after acceptance. Are you explicitly discouraging Penn? Have you said no? I hope she can give it a shot but understand the finances.

I wanted our son to go to state U. instead of an Ivy but the Ivy gave him income opportunities during college that he would not have had- both summer and during the school year, and he paid off his loan in a year due to the job opportunities. I am glad, in retrospect, that we gave him that chance. Our income was petty low at that time and that Ivy did loans, not grants-- they have since stopped that.

Thought you’d like to know my DD is a junior at Penn, with a very generous FA package. On about $120K income, she receives a grants of $44K a year plus work study. Did you apply for aid?

If I take our 2016 AGI and subtract out all the taxes we pay and medical costs, we’re left with less than $90K. Our EFC from Penn is $47,500. I hardly call that generous aid. (It is, however, slightly better than what Duke expects us to pay.) In hindsight I should have pushed Harvard as their NPC for us is less than half of our Penn EFC. It only gets worse when our S would go to college as CSS schools expect you to pay 60% of EFC for each child. If we’re having to take out loans already to pay 100% of CSS, that just means more loans when we have to pay 120%.

We’re getting off topic here. Every family has to make the decision that’s best for their situation. Some will choose an Ivy and debt, others will chose an alternative that leaves them without debt. Neither is the wrong decision.

@SuburbMom I love your posts. They echo our family’s journey with each of our kids. Our dd is turning down full-tuition at Fordham and a smaller scholarship at higher ranked school for Top Scholars and scholarships at USCarolina. No regrets. She is excited about the program perks.

Fwiw, her older brother made similar choices with Bama, CBH, and multiple stacking scholarships. He has had an amazing experience. His REU outcomes have been phenomenal. He applies to grad school in the fall. I am not concerned. At all.

100s of 1000s of $$ for UG for our kids is just not ever going to be an option.

Best wishes to your dd. :slight_smile:

I’d have to say that some of the posts in this thread seem to be illustrating the worst aspect of CC – the Ivy/prestige infatuation. That’s unfortunate because so much depends on fit and comfort level, and often a top scholarship student at a less-selective university is at a distinct advantage being the big fish in the small pond. I know that my son certainly experienced that at the CSU he graduated from.

My daughter did very well (and incurred plenty of debt) going the prestige/almost-Ivy route---- but never really felt that she fit in. Her happiest semester in 4 years was the one she did abroad – it was only there that she felt she had found her people and was truly getting the college experience she had imagined. She does feel strongly that she benefited from the rigorous academics at her college— so in hindsight she is very glad she made that choice … but there was a sacrifice as well.

My DD and DS took very similar paths in choice of major and graduate degrees, and in the end have both done well. They also have very different personalities and work/study styles.

We don’t know the OP’s daughter – we know that she is is considering one school that will relieve her and her family of any worries about finances, and where she is comfortable with the faculty and where she feels she will be happy. It is likely that she will be offered opportunities there that are beyond those experienced by most undergraduate, such as being able to collaborate with a professor on research, or being nominated for prestigious awards or fellowships. Without needing to worry about finances, she will have more freedom to take internships or travel abroad during summers, as well as possible study abroad. One thing I learned long ago as a parent of a globe-hopping kid – paying for international travel and living experiences is a whole lot cheaper than paying for college.

This is a choice that only the daughter and her parents can make – and anyone who now is going to malign the public U. by contrasting it with the Ivy is treading into smile-and-nod territory. If @SuburbMom wants your advice on this choice … she knows how to ask for it. She hasn’t.

I’d note that from what I know of the daughter’s academic interests, she may be going into a career field where a graduate degree will be extremely helpful. If the daughter wants to obtain a master of international relations, she will find that funding for those programs is very limited.

One more item that I would offer as food for thought: In the entire history of Rhodes Scholarships, U. of Mississippi has produced 25 Rhodes Scholars; only 20 have come from U.Penn. See http://www.rhodesscholar.org/assets/uploads/RS_Number%20of%20Winners%20by%20Institution_1_30_17.pdf

This is no accident-- it is likely a byproduct of how the Rhodes Scholarships are allocated by geographical district – some regions are more competitive than others. I’m raising this because this young woman who wanted the Huntsman program may very well have a applications for Rhodes, Marshall or Fulbright in her future. If that is something she might contemplate, then it may be in her best view in terms of her future career aspirations to take a long view.

Congrats @SuburbMom Thank you for your post.

In a similar vein, I really appreciate the posters who inject blunt financial realities into the equation.

It’s helped me a lot. Since we cannot afford it, we’ve had to shake off the lure of prestige and go for the best bang for the buck.

I also really appreciate the posters who point out that public flagships, and gasp, directionals, offer great opportunities for students as well. The school our family can afford is not a consolation prize.

@calmom Excellent post. Only on CC would you find people telling someone with a full-ride plus “$12,000 stipend for educational activities outside the classroom, including study abroad, research, and other enrichment pursuits” that they should spend close to $200,000 for an Ivy even after the OP stated they cannot afford it and they are happy with their decision.

Obviously the OP is proactive and has done research and articulated well-thought out reasons. Families opting for elites are not the only families making educated decisions. [-(

@Mom2aphysicsgeek - I’m glad to hear things have worked out for your kids as well. Going into debt and stretching the family’s finances are not the right choice for everyone.

@calmom - Thank you!! I feel like your post is spot-on and you understand the big picture of this decision.

D can graduate with a degree from an Ivy that may open doors, but with $40,000 in debt that may inhibit her ability to attend grad school, or she can graduate from Ole Miss with her small 529 intact for grad school, 3 travel abroad experiences (she’s hoping for a summer + semester + a short service trip) and who knows what other experiences. Smart choices led to having this decision. No reason to think a smart choice isn’t being made now.

Congratulations to your daughter @SuburbMom . A Stamps scholarship is an awesome opportunity!

Thank you for sharing the news.