<p>Yes, mentioned in later posts. But the first post mentioned only reject/waitlist decisions, plus pending applications to super-selective schools, with no mention of admission to UVA and W&M.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>WWWard, I’m sorry that your daughter has had mostly bad news so far. It does sound like you tried to approach this very systematically. However (and I’m more saying this for parents of juniors who might be reading this), I think applicants need to be more conservative. Schools with acceptance rates in the 20 percent range are going to be reaches for just about everybody – and no one should expect admission to these schools. I’m very conservative – to me, a safety is a school with an acceptance rate at least over 75%. </p>
<p>I hope your daughter gets some good news in the next few days.</p>
<p>arwarw & fireandrain – Thanks. </p>
<p>Based on the test score ranges supplied at College Board’s website, it looked like my D’s stats put her in the 65th-70th percentile at the most selective schools she applied to. She was only in the top 25th percentile at roughly 1/2 of the schools she applied to. </p>
<p>Some anecdotal evidence received this week seems to imply a pending admission to USC, which will hopefully be confirmed Saturday. I believe that they usually accept 20%. So far, the main surprises though were UVa and Northwestern. Even trying to be conservative in our approach, we thought that those two would be in the positive column. We were clearly never all that confident about Yale or UChicago. Those were clear reaches. If the trend continues, Thursday could be a very bleak day… with 6 more negative decisions to come. All 6 now seem like definitive reaches. USC on Saturday would be the lone positive decision out of 11 to date. There is still the prospect of some success on Thursday, but those 6 schools accept only 7-12%. NU and UVa were much higher than that. 14% and 26% I believe.</p>
<p>Time will tell. But after not succeeding with NU, she added a 17th… New College of Florida. But at this point… if our speculation holds true… she may be USC-bound as of April 1 (when Stanford and Vanderbilt also announce). And that is actually fine with her. It is a great school… especially for her main educational focus - theatre.</p>
<p>Part of the error in terms of being over-confident at her HS may have been acceptances there recently by students now at Harvard, NU, Duke and Penn who all had weaker resumes/stats. The main differing factor though is that none of them were white females. Can it really be that simple?</p>
<p>I will follow-up by next Tues evening though – letting you know the final tally. I think it is a great thing that CC can serve as a guidepost for future applicants. Yes… applicants need to be very conservative and plan their array of applications strategically. No quality applicant ever need be truly shut out. So be prepared and plan well :)</p>
<p>Good luck to all of this year’s applicants…</p>
<p>@essay teacher- I probably should have explained the “What” at the end of my comments. I do understand the “circuit” comment- I was more reacting to the fact that what the gc was really saying is, “This is not a school we push”. Our HS is highly ranked and we are considered a “feeder” school for the Ivies/highly selective universities especially on the East Coast, so they actually have some power to control where you can apply. They downplay some of the smaller, less selective schools so that it helps the stats. </p>
<p>WWWard, UVa (out of state) and Northwestern are reaches for everyone. No one should consider them matches, and definitely not safeties. Where your stats fit into the applicant pool is irrelevant when acceptance rates are low. Northwestern acceptance rate last year was 14%. I don’t think it has anything to do with being a white female. It’s a numbers thing – when schools accept such a low percentage, nothing is a sure thing. </p>
<p>I hope USC comes through. </p>
<p>Thanks, fireandrain </p>
<p>WWWard, isn’t theater a more selective major to get into in general? I know the Cherubs summer program at Northwestern is very well regarded and very selective. My guess is the summer program draws a lot of theater majors when it comes time for them to apply to college?</p>
<p>Northwestern’s theatre program is capped at approximately 50 girls/year. My guess is many of those spots are claimed in the ED round. I remember a mom here on CC whose daughter was admitted to Yale, but waitlisted at NU theatre. She eventually got off the waitlist and opted for NU theatre over Yale. NU has arguably the finest preprofessional BA theatre program in the world.</p>
<p>UVA may appear to have a relatively high OOS acceptance rate, but OOS legacy students who apply EA get preferential treatment - they are treated as in-state applicants in terms of admissions. UVA freely admits this. A lot of alumni send their kids to UVA - putting a squeeze on beds available for OOS non-legacy applicants.</p>
<p>In our city, there is a large prep school that sends a lot of kids to UVA. I spoke to a mom there whose son was waitlisted. She said 75% of the admits were legacies - many with much lower stats then her son.</p>
<p>"…using statistics as a predictor should be more reliable for students that aren’t at the top of the curve."</p>
<p>This is absolutely true, and something that, I think, doesn’t get mentioned enough, especially when kids are trying to evaluate their chances here on CC: the higher the stat arc, the <em>more unpredictable</em>, rather than more predictable, the acceptance rate. In part, as mitchklong says, it’s because high stat kids will be solidly in the 75% and above category at every school they apply to, which becomes as meaningless as the distinction between 2400 and 2250 SAT–at the 20%-and-fewer schools, the 75% represents the norm, rather than the high point, of kids applying. It truly doesn’t matter if the 75% CR at Williams is ten points lower than yours; kids at that level are being chosen for factors other than scores. This is tough for kids, and parents (including myself!) to appreciate; with so much that is subjective about the process, the scores seem objective, and it’s hard to believe that at that point they’re irrelevant. </p>
<p>The emphasis on Naviance as a method for gauging one’s chances does high-stats kids more harm than good, because every acceptance to these schools from one’s high school is going to be in some sense an outlier, not to be rationalized by reference to their scores. Even match schools are tough, because as I mentioned earlier in this thread (I think it was this thread), the very high scores that ought to make match schools matches, may lead the school to waitlist or reject the kid who had every right to expect an acceptance, based on Naviance and one’s best efforts to evaluate the fit. I don’t think GCs or parents or students are necessarily being overly-optimistic if a high-stat kid gets shut out of all his reaches and even his matches; it’s truly becoming almost impossible to know what the results will be, at the schools with acceptance rates under 75%. All of them. </p>
<p>WWWard, my sympathies right now; this is so hard. </p>
<p>
If they were URMs, that could be the reason. If they were white males, or Asian students (of either sex), the answer is probably more complex. I think the lesson from WWWard’s experience is that the admission percentages don’t tell all of the story, because that number may include many kids with much, much higher odds of admission–recruited athletes, URMs, legacies, and people with other hooks. It may be an average which includes undersubscribed and oversubscribed majors. It may not make clear the role of early admission. I’d add to WWWard–if your daughter does get admitted to USC (or to other schools she would be happy to attend), your overall strategy worked. It shows how important it is to cast a broad net. By the way, New College of Florida is a lesser-known gem.</p>
<p>WWWard, I too am rooting for your daughter. Her story shows how unpredictable ultra-selective admissions have become. In sharing that, you have certainly helped many future applicants, and their parents, who read CC. I want to applaud you for posts that are … well, classy is the best word I can think of! Many of us have our fingers crossed for your d and look forward to reading her good news.</p>
<p>creative1 & arwarw - Thanks. Yes… and you are correct, my D’s desired 1st choice major is likely the main reason that she did not make the cut to either Yale or Northwestern, as they both are well known for having excellent and thus highly-competitive theatre programs. In fact, it was a concern related to the USC School of Dramatic Arts as well, which is also highly regarded. Clearly, if the USC admit comes… we will consider that a solid victory. I think her heart is still pulling for Brown most of all… but the admit rate there and the other results to date have tempered her expectations greatly.</p>
<p>And yes… we do now understand that being from FL and applying to UVa makes it a much more difficult prospect.</p>
<p>marysidney & razzled1 - Thanks. Clearly, this is a valuable lesson to all potential applicants… one that reoccurs yearly. When your stats place you in the 98th percentile nationally, there is an obvious inclination to make certain assumptions or to allow yourself to be swayed by others suggesting that such stats will automatically equate to success. But the simple reality is that even just the top few percent of applicants nationally still represents many thousands of HS seniors - who are all competing for very few spots at the nation’s most elite schools. So yes - shoot for the stars… and take your shot at the most highly selective schools out there, but also temper your enthusiasm and do your best to also find highly selective and moderately selective and safer choices to apply to as well. This is understandably hard. If you excel, apply yourself, work hard and succeed… it is understandable to expect that you may find success at one of your top 3-5 choices. No one can really be all that enthusiastic about having to get inspired about the 8th or 11th choice school… just because they are the one that ultimately accepted you.</p>
<p>Hunt – Thanks. They were a mix… URMs, white males and an Asian-American. It also shows that playing golf or tennis is far more important than dedicating your life to the creative arts… lol (at least to colleges) Yes… New College of Florida is a great school that few know anything about. It is FL’s public honors college and has more Fulbright Scholars per capita historically than any US college… including HYPS. It is very small and offers a very hands-on approach with excellent faculty. For theatre kids especially, it could be a great opportunity, as they co-mingle with the FSU grad students taking the MFA program at the Asolo Theatre Company… also ranked as one of the top acting programs in the world by the Hollywood Reporter.</p>
<p>WWWard, did she have to audition for theater programs at any of these schools? If so, that just adds a whole additional layer of unpredictability to the process.</p>
<p>Ironically… only at FSU and UTampa… where she was admitted. As she did not apply BFA, auditions were not a requirement at the more elite colleges. In retrospect… we now wish that she could have found a way to audition at some of these other schools. Our location in FL would have been an obstacle, but likely one worth overcoming…</p>
<p>I think at a number of these schools, there really is no audition process for undergrad potential theater majors, because they don’t admit by major. The same is true for potential music majors (although many of them submit an arts supplement, which may or may not make a difference).</p>
<p>WWWard said: “Our advice is simple… aim high, but do apply to a good mix of schools… a few reaches… a few more matches and 2-3 safeties as well.”</p>
<p>Good advice for future applicants! I really believe limiting applications to just 2-3 schools per category forces the applicant in to a much more focused and personalized research, selection and application process, which I think generally yields more satisfying results.</p>
<p>A short list of colleges allows a kid more time to dig deep on each school and allows more interaction with regional adcoms, current students and professors.</p>
<p>Try to treat all the schools like reach schools. Meet with the regional adcom every time he or she visits your town. Try to schedule on site interviews with admissions, even if it’s not required. Meet with professors. Tour their departments. If it feels right, ask professors if they could send a brief email of support to your regional adcom. Professors want students who are interested in their departments.</p>
<p>Take notes after your campus visits of the little things you like about the school. If appropriate, incorporate these details in to your applications.</p>
<p>Treat the supplements for each school with deadly seriousness. Think about what every single word in your application says about you and how you mesh with that particular school and it’s culture.</p>
<p>Ask the regional adcom what he or she is looking for. If you fit the stated criteria, by all means relay that detailed information to your GC and teacher so they can include it in their recommendation letters.</p>
<p>I think it’s difficult to get down to that level of detail with the approach that you must cast a wide net to reach schools. That’s just my opinion, and I’m sure many have had success with the wide net approach.</p>
<p>Good advice… an approach to apply – whether applying to only one school EA/ED or to even a wider net RD…</p>
<p>
I completely disagree with this advice for any student who is applying to reach schools with very low admission rates. Digging deep into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, et al. is not going to increase your odds of getting admitted to one of them nearly as much as will applying to more schools in that group. Don’t get me wrong–I’m not suggesting that people who don’t have much chance of getting into one of these highly selective schools should apply to a bunch of them on the off chance that lightning will strike. But if you have the stats and ECs to be a reasonable candidate for (say) Harvard, there’s a pretty good chance you would also like Yale, Princeton, Brown, and several other very selective schools. Admission to these schools is unpredictable, and many people are admitted to one or two, but not the rest–and there is no clear pattern. For people aiming at the most selective schools, I think 6 to 8 reaches is quite sensible, followed by 3-5 matches, and at least two safeties. Yes, that could be 15 or 16 schools. I don’t think that’s too many. You might even need more if you need to compare financial aid offers.</p>
<p>And yea for me and my family… we get to do this all again in 3 years for my other daughter. And believe me… she is paying a lot more attention to this process and what her older sister has been going through than I would have ever expected. She REALLY wants to find the right school and get admitted EARLY. She does not want to endure this same level of stress and uncertainty…</p>