<p>Eliminating the current “holistic” process does not necessarily mean replacing it with a stats based process. It could be replaced by a “race blind holistic “process. Race base affirmative action could be replaced by class based/socio-economic based affirmative action. The link provides an interesting prospective. Sometimes where you stand depends on where you sit. </p>
<p>Harvard, MIT, Penn and Stanford in addition to his rejection from Princeton. Princeton was planning, back in 2008, to release broader info to the OCR to help them understand admisisons procedures. Assume they did. This one is so quiet, it’s hard to find updated info. </p>
<p>“After reading a study by Princeton sociologists that removing race-based admissions would benefit Asians, he decided to file the complaint.” Should have read the rest of what Espenshade says, incl that his findings are limited, not to assume they apply universally.</p>
<p>“Many others had far better qualifications,” Rapelye (Dean of Admissions) said of Li, breaking with the office’s tradition of not commenting on specific applications. “His outside activities were not all that outstanding.”</p>
<p>Of course, people sitting here claiming one can’t get into Ivies accomplishes that?<br>
None of those billionaires went to Harvard or Yale and one dropped out after one year at Princeton. Most of them came for grad school from other countries. </p>
<p>What happened to all Asians who already graduated from MIT, Stanford and Caltech? Only Jerry Yang was good enough?</p>
<p>I am dumbfounded that the one Asian listed as being a billionaire who made money from Google seems to be foreign born.</p>
He must have been pretty qualified, because he got into Yale. But what a hypocrit–he brought his claim against Princeton, but not Harvard, which also rejected him–and he later transferred from Yale to Harvard. And even if he was “qualified across the board,” that still reveals a basic lack of understanding of how Princeton selects its class. It doesn’t take students in the order of how “qualified” they are. It takes them in order of how well they fit Princeton’s institutional needs. Jian Li may have been rejected because he didn’t come from Idaho. Or maybe in his Princeton interview, he came across as an entitled jerk. Who knows? Presumably he’s out in the real world by now.</p>
<p>To drop out of Princeton, you need to get into Princeton first, Right? </p>
<p>How many Indians that came here won the Nobel Prize? This is a better metric of achievement than a few billionaires from the dot com bubble era who happen to be at the right place at the right time.</p>
<p>Wrong again. They didn’t fill this spot from another from Idaho. They picked a less qualified white guy from the same school. That’s how they got caught.</p>
<p>The Princeton guy got in as an immigrant in in 70s when they were not admitting many Asians. But he dropped out to be a monk for 12 years.</p>
<p>They can win nobel prizes from anywhere, why come to US. The dotcom billionaires are no longer on this list. The ones still on run their own companies.</p>
<p>The question still remains - where are the native borns on this list? You are complaining about people not being given the opportunity in companies or starting companies because they are Asians. I am showing you that opportunities are what you make of it. </p>
<p>If some foreigner who started a career in US at the age of 26-30 and is a billionaire at 55, people who are native born should have more opportunities than him since they went to school here. Don’t tell me one has to attend Ivy league since neither of Google founders did. This Indian guy went to a local school in India and got a Michigan MBA (the horror) and became a billionaire. Its not like he was the only Asian in silicon valley at that time.</p>
<p>Well, Josh, it is challenging for me to take you seriously, given that where we live a majority is in the 1% or at least top 10% of incomes and we have way too many incredibly gracious and well-educated “asians” in the area for me to be overly concerned.</p>
<p>I’m much more concerned about the lack of Hispanics in the area, frankly, in any other than working positions.</p>
<p>I have a feeling your resentment is directed in the wrong direction, and I sincerely hope you will find something constructive to do with your angry energy. I hope you will have good luck and that you do not speak to people in the real world so pugnaciously. Much of getting ahead in life is about how well you interact with others who are different than you are.</p>
<p>Life does tend to be “holistic.” for better or for worse.</p>
<p>“This shows how little you know about this case or willing to admit. Jian Li was more qualified across the board, not just in scores and grades.”</p>
<p>I call ■■■■■.
Unless you are secretly either a 2010 P adcom or member of the Dept Of Ed OCR team. Fess up.</p>
<p>All over CC, kids complain someone else got in and they didn’t. Life’s tough. Unless you see these apps, unless you are inside and know the institutional standards and goals, you don’t know. All you can do is read different opinions and form an opinion of your own and broadcast it.</p>
<p>How many apps have you seen, Joshua, that you can claim who is more qualified? You’re outside the wall, crying foul over something you suspect. That’s all. …this is futile.</p>
<p>The racism thread will gain you more satisfaction.</p>
<p>Was Li’s admission results even part of his official complaint? My impression was that he filed a complaint against Princeton with the Office of Civil Rights because Princeton was the school where the Eppenshade study was done.</p>
<p>I bet Li was more qualified by any reasonable judgement than the guys who got into Princeton or wherever from the same high school. However, ivy leagues do make baffling decisions even when it is between people of the same race.</p>
<p>No one knows the reason another kid in his hs got the admit. Of course, there could be more to that kid’s story. And, the quality of 10 other kids in the area- leaving Li to the waitlist. All we know is Li’s stats.</p>
<p>So, collegealum, you “bet” Jian Li was more qualified than some unspecified “other kids” about whom you know exactly—let me guess—NOTHING? Whose admission application—again, let me just throw out a wild guess—you did not review? Again, we have someone who arrogates to him- or herself the right to determine what a “reasonable judgment” is in the case of admission decisions. Here’s the thing, though: Unless and until something changes drastically, the “reasonable judgment” is the judgment of the admissions officers who review applicants with an eye to creating an entering class. Unless someone makes a credible case that the people making those decisions are unlawfully discriminating against people on the basis of race, you are going to have to live with their judgment.</p>
<p>My point was that ivies make baffling decisions even when you take the race equation out of it. Like, for instance, candidate A is ostensibly better at everything than candidate B but they take candidate B anyway. And while I trust Li’s judgement that he was more qualified than the candidates from his own school (if that’s what he said), I think you can’t normally say that race was the reason. So in a sense I agree that you can’t necessarily say that discrimination occurred with regard to who they took from his school.</p>
<p>argbargy made me laugh. Maybe the world is going to end today. ;)</p>
<p>Why do you trust Li’s judgment, collegealum314? Because he got a 2400 on his SAT? Does that make him incapable of having a skewed perspective? Put it this way, presumably if he’d have had the power to make the Princeton admission decision, he’d have picked himself over all kinds of people. What exactly would that prove?</p>