How Did I Get Waitlisted By My Safety School?

Archive Ask The Dean Archive
1

<p>Question: I can’t understand how I got wait-listed by my safety school. My SAT scores and GPA are way higher than the school’s average. Even more puzzling is that a classmate, with a lower school ranking and a much lower SAT score, got accepted …</p>

<p>HOW DID “THE DEAN” RESPOND?</p>

<p>See <a href=“http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/how-did-i-get-waitlisted-by-my-safety-school.htm”>http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/how-did-i-get-waitlisted-by-my-safety-school.htm&lt;/a&gt; </p>

2

<p>“The applicant didn’t demonstrate interest” translates to “We want a higher yield rate so we look like a better school” imo. Is that obvious to anybody else?</p>

3

<p>Most admission officials will insist that they don’t turn down a highly qualified candidate simply because the candidate didn’t show any commitment to enrolling, but I’ve seen situations where apathy on the part of the candidate does seem to translate into deferral, waitlisting, or even rejection.</p>

<p>But, on the other hand, students, parents, guidance counselors, and all of the rest of us on the outside of those closed admission-committee doors, can only speculate about why a candidate wasn’t admitted, and sometimes this speculation is way off target. We simply don’t have access to all of the information that the admission folks see … and this includes “institutional needs,” which can even change from year to year.</p>

4

<p>

</p>

<p>Lehigh apparently did use what they saw as lack of applicant’s interest as part of the reason to waitlist an applicant: <a href=“Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes”>Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes;

<p>

</p>

<p>Whether a school uses “level of applicant’s interest” can be found in the admissions tab for the school at <a href=“http://www.collegedata.com”>http://www.collegedata.com</a> or section C7 of its common data set.</p>

5

<p>@ucbalumnus</p>

<p>That case is fascinating. I wish that colleges would give us a live stream of the discussion about us. It would make the whole thing less mysterious.</p>

6

<p>It irks me that campus visits weigh heavily in some admission decisions. Sure, in a perfect world, all prospective students would visit campus BEFORE applying. But finances and other logistics (sports, weekend jobs, heavy course load, family illness, etc.) prevent some students from getting to all the campuses that they would like to see. And, perhaps ironically, students may choose to visit the schools that they are lukewarm about applying to rather than their top choices. If you think about it, this makes sense. The kid from Chicago who has known for much of his life that he wants to go to Penn may decide to spring for a pricey trip to Philadelphia only if the Ivy League college–a “Reach” school–favors him with a yes. But if he’s deciding between several other colleges as his “Realistic” and “Safe” options, he is wise to visit those before winnowing down his list, and they may even be closer to home and less costly and cumbersome to visit.</p>

<p>In addition, most admission officials these days acknowledge that there are a growing number of “stealth” applicants… students who apply to their institutions but whose names don’t turn up on mailing lists and interview or tour rosters. Stealth applicants may be VERY interested and will accept offers of admission. But these are students who aren’t able to visit for numerous reasons (such as those cited above) or who DID in fact visit but who bunked with a cousin or a friend who also provided a customized tour. I always advise high school students who make their own campus visit plans to check in with the admission office while there or, if it’s over a weekend when the office is closed, to let their regional rep know about the trip. But my advice reaches only a tiny fraction of teenagers who make these under-the-radar visits. Such visits can, of course, be an excellent way to view a campus because the guests are not meeting only with campus ambassadors who were hand-picked by the admission office. But, nonetheless, when a visit doesn’t go on the record, it can hurt the applicant. </p>

<p>Even when a college claims that “Demonstrated Interest” does NOT affect admission outcomes, a committee discussion may include whether or not the student came to campus. By indicating that interest does not play a role in final verdicts, I suspect that some popular colleges are trying to innoculate themselves against an onslaught of the suck-up messages that came into vogue a decade or more ago when the word got out that showing one’s love could be critical. (“Dear Dean, When I woke up this morning, Duke was on my mind …”) </p>

<p>I’ve also heard many high school students (and parents) claim that they prefer to gather their college knowledge from independent sources (such as College Confidential) :slight_smile: rather than from the propaganda that the school itself provides. Thus, if it appears that a prospective student isn’t opening admission office emails or admissions portals, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the student isn’t eagerly foraging for information elsewhere.</p>

<p>So, as the mother of a high school junior, I instruct my son to open all the e-mail he gets from his target colleges, to RSVP to college events–even when he can’t attend–and to make certain that his campus visits are
duly noted in admission offices. Admittedly, I feel a bit disingenuous at times–especially when I encourage him to click on email messages that he probably won’t even read. But I will restrict the number of colleges that my son ultimately applies to. His final list will be short and manageable, and he’s definitely on board with that plan. So if he gets unexpected bad news at decision time, at least we’ll know that it wasn’t because admission folks thought he wasn’t interested.</p>

<p>When my son was born, 17 years ago, I was convinced that–by the time he was ready to go to college–this crazy process would be much saner and less stressful than it was back then. But, sadly, I fear it’s only gotten worse. </p>

7

<p>Perhaps it may be worth adding to the list here:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1626043-ways-to-show-a-high-level-of-applicant-s-interest.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1626043-ways-to-show-a-high-level-of-applicant-s-interest.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

8

<p>And sometimes you visit and still get waitlisted…sigh. </p>

9

<p>Another way colleges check on “showing interest” is through the emails they send. They can monitor if you open the email or simply delete it without opening it. The more deletes, the less interest, the less likely an admit decision. </p>

10

<p>But what about if your email provider allows a reader pane where you don’t have to click and open the email to read it? Is clicking without opening it to read in the side window detected at their end?</p>

11

<p>There are easily other ways to demonstrate interest other than visiting campus. Clearly they know that its your safety school because you either didn’t open your portal or you didn’t take the time. I was deferred from a school I should have been denied from during EA because of demonstrated interest. To demonstrate interest:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Visit campus if possible. If you can’t afford to email the school. Tell them you want to go to the school, but its not economically possible. A girl in my school the year before me did that and 3 schools all paid for her trip (including half to all of her airfare). </p></li>
<li><p>Go to an information session in your town or city. If you can’t go than send an email saying you would like to attend but can’t. </p></li>
<li><p>Go to an information session at your school, or ask other local schools if that college will be there. </p></li>
<li><p>Open ALL emails the send ASAP. Forward it to your parents. A friend shows me the software that they use and the can see WHEN you OPEN it, how many times, and if it is forwarded. </p></li>
<li><p>Go to college fairs, even if you know all about the school just get them to scan your paper. That shows them you took the time. </p></li>
<li><p>Take your time to make sure your essay is carefully and well written. Some times even a bad essay can show you don’t care. I have classmates that didn’t get into a school they thought they would because in an essay they said something like “international relations” instead of “international affairs”. That kind of thing shows how much you care. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Schools that use the CommonApp (so a lot of schools) are REQUIRED to look at the whole application. Not just grades and scores. It doesn’t matter if the school is trying to help their yield rate. Why would they admit someone they know is most likely going to turn them down. Instead they might have admitted a kid that really wanted to go. Not only is this process about you, but it’s about the school too. They also need to find students that fit the best, and one that doesn’t want to be there isn’t what they want. </p>

12

<p>@midhelper You should open everything. If you want to be sure they are seeing it forward it because they can see that too. </p>

13

<p>That’s a little bit creepy. Didn’t know they could do that.</p>

14

<p>On demonstrated interest, should the student send flowers? How does one demonstrate interest, an enough of an interest to be sufficient and presumably not too much to be absurd and perhaps dishonest seeming?</p>

15

<p>@oregongirl14 thanks but I guess it’s too late for that now. So here is a story we lived through. We went and visited a college over the summer -met with the admissons counselor for 45 minutes, my son has been emailing with her too. He gets this email the other saying “Our records indicate you have not visited the campus …” yadda yadda.
So I guess it depends on the school. Yale specifically says on their site that they do not track applicants. I guess it pays to ask. Another school my son called to apologize because we couldn’t make it to the honor’s luncheon we planned on going to and she asked for his name & everything and wrote it down.</p>

<p>For students applying to a lot of places this is very difficult. My son’s school doesn’t even allow students to use a phone during the day and the school’s computers have the email accounts blocked out so by the time he comes home - well he can never line up college office hours to call them unless he skips a class or begs someone in the office.</p>

16

<p>The article mentions that Case is need sensitive. It would be nice for college applicants to know about how need sensitive they are to see if it is worth while for a higher need applicant to apply. So in addition to the standard admission criteria of test score, class rigor, rank and gpa, the schools should somehow communicate the profile of the last class’s financial worthiness (and neediness).</p>

<p>This might make any non acceptpance decisions more understandable. Of course, wd it be too much to ask for a real reason on why an applicant was rejected after the applicant spent time, money and emotion in the application to the school, including visiting, sometimes multiple times.</p>

17

<p>@midhelper Can’t you just excuse him from class for a little while? That’s what my parents would do when I had to call coaches on the east coast when I was being recruited my junior year. You can also just email them from home and say: “hi, I received an email saying I hadn’t visited campus and I wanted to clarify that I had visited…”. They can respond to an email the next day. Or ask his school college/guidance counselor to send an email. </p>

<p>Northeastern says that demonstrated interest isn’t required, but it saved me from being denied. Yale probably says they don’t track applicants because they don’t want a ton of people constantly emailing them, so they can make sure they get demonstrated interest. Ivy Leagues assume everyone has a huge commitment to going to them. </p>

18

<p>Yes we did exactly that too and some teachers were not as cooperative as others. Yes he did a lot of emailing but sometimes you have a series of questions depending on their answers etc. Either way even being excused from class he couldn’t find a suitable place to make the call unless he came home etc. which meant missing more than just a few minutes. We really felt the stress of that this year. One admissions counselor only responded to 1 of the 5 emails he sent them. Just frustrating. Then you hear well your contact with them makes a difference. Way to go to those students who can juggle all this and keep up with their school work - stressful!</p>

19

<p>My situation is somewhat similar. I reside in Texas, and the Texas A&M Honors program was my safety target (they accept nearly 50% of students that apply to the program, and my GPA/ACT was much higher than average). I also applied to UT Austin’s Liberal Arts Honors Program and Plan 2 honors. I got rejected to A&M Honors flat out (not even waitlisted), and got a waitlist offer at UT Austin’s Liberal Arts Honors (although got accepted to Plan 2, so I am very grateful!) . However, it scares me to think that A&M Honors was literally my top choice a few months back, and was considered a safety target (most of the kids who apply to the program from my school get in with lower stats). </p>

<p>The only reason why getting rejected to A&M Honors didn’t bother me too much was the lucky fact that I got likely letters to 3 Ivy’s (Yale, Columbia, Penn), likely to Stanford, and AB Scholar finalist (full ride) to Duke, probably about a week before the rejection! </p>

<p>I don’t want to think too deeply into my rejection, as I know I am definitely not entitled to an acceptance solely because of my grades/scores - perhaps I legitimately did lack what they were looking for in an applicant that would fit their school. But I still continue to be confused by the fact that I got rejected/waitlisted by my top “safety” choices, but got admitted (with likelies!) to schools I would have never imagined ever getting into! :)</p>

20

<p>Schools try to build a community. They do not just take all the “best” applicants. They need leaders and dependable hard workers who prefer to be followers. They need tuba players and clarinet players. They have different spots to fill for majors-- they can’t take all kids that hope to be pre-med. From what I’ve seen most places do a good jump of building a diverse interesting community of kids they think will fit there. There are many good schools out there – don’t get your heart set on one place. And don’t think less of a school just because they reject a “highly qualified” applicant. Maybe they just had enough perfect kids already. One top CC school pointed out to us in the info session that they could fill their class with kids with perfect GPA and SATs scores from the applications they receive, but they don’t–and for good reason. </p>