<p>How did some schools get a strong reputation in just a few subjects, even though they have a much weaker reputation in general?</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>Delaware: chemical engineering
Stony Brook: computer science, math, physics, philosophy
Massachusetts Amherst: computer science, math
Arizona: geology, philosophy</p>
<p>It’s not just a matter of strong reputations. There are schools – and I think you’ve cited some good examples – that truly have certain programs that are of far better quality than the university as a whole. And I suspect there’s a story behind each of these instances.</p>
<p>The strong chemical engineering program at Delaware, for example, fairly obviously reflects the university’s relationship with DuPont.</p>
<p>[Cross posted with eyemamaom.]</p>
<p>For Delaware it has to be the relationship with Dupont.</p>
<p>The thing to consider, if you or your child is thinking of enrolling in an excellent program at a not-quite-so-outstanding university, is how likely the student is to stay in that program. Because the downside to top programs at lower-ranked schools is that if you leave the program, you’re at a school that’s lower on the academic food chain than some of the others that you could have attended, and you no longer have the program’s prestige to offset this disadvantage.</p>
<p>For example, I know of a couple of students who chose Syracuse University because of its outstanding communications program, and others who chose Indiana University because of its outstanding music major, even though they could have gone to more academically prestigious universities. This worked out well for the two kids at Syracuse, who stayed in the communications program and ended up with excellent careers, but not so well for some of the Indiana kids, who changed their minds about majoring in music and found themselves studying something else at a university that was really not up to their level, academically. </p>
<p>The ideal situation, I think, is to be in a highly regarded specialty program at a university that is also highly regarded in general. For example, if you go to Cornell for its top-ranked program in hotel administration but decide to change your major to computer science or psychology or whatever, you’re still going to graduate from Cornell – which is a pretty good outcome.</p>
<p>Stony Brook successfully recruited Yang Chen Ning for their physics department when I was still in high school. That got the ball rolling.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about Arizona. Is it located near some interesting geological site? Up here in Ontario, Lakehead is a lowly rated university, but is well known for geology because of its location at the Canadian Shield.</p>
<p>Even before the CN Yang Institute for Theoretical Physics at Stony Brook, there was (and still is) Brookhaven National Laboratory–which helped in recruiting Yang Chen Ning there.</p>
<p>At Carnegie Mellon I think the strength of the comp sci school comes straight from the Dean. He’s an amazing charismatic guy who recruited the best. I don’t know all the backdoor politics, but I do know that he or his predecessor basically spun the school off from CMU’s engineering school because they wanted to be bigger and better and weren’t getting the support for it as just a major within a bigger department.</p>
<p>For a school like American which when my mother attended was considered a pretty mediocre school (she finished her degree there because it was convenient), has now become quite well known in niche fields. Basically it has capitalized on its location and made a decision to make interning during the school year really easy.</p>
<p>^Smart move. Becoming well-known in one field is a good strategy. It is easier and helps with the overall reputation of a school as well</p>
<p>As spouse of professor, I understand that a department can change dramatically with a few significant hires, at least in the humanities. Top philosphy programs include Rutgers, Pitt, Arizona, NYU. Some highly regarded programs excel in a very specific area within the discipline whereas I think NYU is strong across the discipline, having gone on a spending spree a while back to acquire top-level people. Well-established faculty can be lured to a new school with a Chair and with funding commitments for additional hires in their area, creating a world-class group in their specialty. Of course, more complicated in the sciences where you are talking research dollars, labs and programs.</p>
<p>SUNY Albany and its College of Nanoscience and Engineering is another example of a university where a single department greatly outshines the sum of its parts. The college is an example of what NYS can do when there is support for an initiative across the political spectrum and when the keys to the kingdom are turned over to a brilliant and visionary executive. The CNSE college is largely the creation of Dr. Alain Kaloyeros, who also now happens to be the highest paid employee in NYS government. While CNSE is highly regarded, Albany as a whole is now widely considered to be #4 in a ranking of SUNY’s 4 “university centers.”</p>
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<p>They’re also known for their pre-med program because of their association with their med school. In fact, Stonybrook was one of the common backup state-schools for aspiring pre-meds. However, never heard anything about their Philosophy department…</p>
<p>Another school one can add is St. John’s University…which has a well-respected Pharmacy program…but is widely considered weak in nearly everything else. </p>
<p>Several HS classmates who went there as Pharmacy majors on scholarships mentioned that while the Pharmacy program was rigorous…the rest of their academic program was in their words “a complete joke”. </p>
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<p>CMU’s strengths from what I’ve heard from HS GCs and several dozen CMU alum friends/HS classmates/colleagues tends to be overwhelmingly concentrated in the Dramatic Arts and STEM fields…especially CS/Engineering. However, their social science/humanities departments are considered the “guts” of that university which was confirmed by those alums. </p>
<p>Some went so far as to say they’d dissuade any younger relatives/future kids from applying to CMU if their academic interests were in the humanities/social science areas as there are comparable universities/LACs with far stronger programs and if they can’t get in…they’d get a comparable/better experience at our local in-state schools.</p>
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<p>That was the case 15+ years ago. SUNY Albany was commonly known as the “#1 party flagship” back in the '90s. Nearly everyone I knew who went there either did it for the partying or because they had exceedinly low GPAs precluding entrance into better SUNY flagships. Nearly everyone in the latter camp ended up transferring to the better SUNY flagships or elite universities because they were fed up with the level of academics and the party-scene.</p>
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<p>That would be ME!!! I enjoyed much about IU (after I bailed on music), and my Kelley degree has served me well, but I was definitely one of the stronger students. If I had CC back then to help with my choice (or even the internet), I would have picked a LAC. But then I might not have found my passion for college basketball 
so I guess it all works out.</p>
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<p>True, but sometimes admissions or finances precludes going to such a school. Some students end up with a choice of a school good in just their major but not that great overall, versus a generally better school that is not as good in their major. So the choice between such schools may well depend on how firm the student is in his/her choice of major.</p>
<p>^^ and how many high school students can be THAT sure! I think economics is the biggest shock. High school students really have no idea what an econ major involves, get to college and discover “oh my God, it’s too much MATH” and that’s the end of that!</p>
<p>Anyone know the story behind Michigan State and Nuclear Physics?</p>
<p>Sometimes, it’s a matter of what school had the first department or program in a particular field.
Some examples:
Creative Writing at Iowa; Journalism at Missouri; Food Science at UMass</p>
<p>Re: post #4: “This worked out well for the two kids at Syracuse, who stayed in the communications program and ended up with excellent careers, but not so well for some of the Indiana kids, who changed their minds about majoring in music and found themselves studying something else at a university that was really not up to their level, academically.”</p>
<p>Yet, Indiana has strong departments across a wide range of fields. It’s clearly under-rated.
Folklore (NRC #1)
Ecology (NRC #2)
German (NRC #2)
Public Affairs (USNWR #2 grad rankings): #2 Environmental, #13 Health, #6 Information/Technology, #1 Nonprofit, #3 Public Finance, #3 Public Administration, #13 Public Policy)
Music (NRC #4 Musicology)
American Studies (NRC #5)
Linguistics (NRC #7)
Comparative Literature (NRC #8)
Religion (NRC #8)
Mathematics (NRC #11)
Geography (NRC #13)
Political Science (NRC #13)
Psychology (NRC #13)
English (NRC #15)
Spanish (NRC #16)
Astronomy (NRC #17)
French (NRC #16)
Physics (NRC #20)
Education (USNWR #21 grad rankings, #8 Elementary, #10 Secondary)
Kelly School of Business (USNWR #22 graduate ranking): Entrepreneurship (USMWR #9), Operations/Production (USNWR #10)
Criminal Justice (USNWR #22)
Sociology (NRC #24)
Microbiology (NRC #26)
Kinesiology (NRC #26)
Anthropology (NRC #26)
Classics (NRC #27)
Art (USNWR #30 graduate ranking): #10 Ceramics, #10 Jewelry, #13 Drawing/Painting, #5 Printmaking</p>
<p>And these rankings don’t include several fields for which there are no rankings, e.g., East Asian Languages, Central Eurasian Studies, etc.</p>
<p>It is usually about funding and the ability to buy strong talent (big researchers in the field and that takes big money…labs, salaries, etc.) combined with excellent hiring that allowed them to build a particular niche of expertise and develop a reputation in a particular field. Strong and likeminded talent attracts strong and likeminded talent. A few key big players can make a huge difference.</p>
<p>Hmmm. I jut realized that folks on this thread are probably talking about very different thigns when they talk about ‘strong programs’. As an academic, I was thinking big reputation to other academics, the powerhouse of research. USNWR in contrast is focused on student experience. Kelley for example is NOT known as a great business school in the world of business school professors, but it seems to be well regarded for undergrads applying there. Apples and oranges. And my answer above has everything to do with resaerch and not necessarily to do with magazine rankings of student experiences.</p>
<p>Kelley has an excellent reputation with employers, which is what really matters!</p>
<p>… Plus every few decades Indiana gets their act together and actually fields a competitive basketball team :-), the campus is quite pretty, and so on. </p>
<p>IU’s thing with OOS - like my alma mater Purdue’s - is that while in state tuition is very reasonable, OOS is 3x in state, $30k.</p>