I will admit that I am biased as a parent who is not employed in the education field, but I am curious as to how, beyond school profiles, AOs assess relative high school rigor.
I am aware of multiple instances in which students from expensive private schools without qualified science, math, or foreign language educators on staff are admitted to T30 colleges and universities, but local public schools with AP offerings have lower rates of admission to the same T30 schools. All of this data is released by the high schools themselves. Is this data trustworthy or are AOs simply misjudging or disregarding relative high school rigor for some other reason?
Without going into a discussion of how you personally can assess quality of instructors, students from expensive private schools are often heavily hooked - legacy, donors, recruited athletes, fac brats
Curious how you are assessing this. Is it lack of AP offerings (as you seem to imply later)? If so, this is not an accurate way to assess qualifications. Many private schools don’t offer APs because their internally-designed courses are actually considered more rigorous. Is it lack of teaching credential? Also may not mean anything - I know a number of PhDs who have opted to teach at private high schools. They are excellent, experienced teachers who have mastered their subject area, but have no desire to go through the credentialing process. Private schools scoop them up,
Our private HS places in very selective colleges around a 3 times higher rate than raw GPAs/approximate class standing (we don’t report ranks)/test-scores would explain.
I think a lot of that is independent of academics–legacies, recruited athletes, various other activities, being full pay, really good college counseling, and so on.
But to the extent our academics are helping, I think it is because we credibly claim a lot of our advanced classes are actually more advanced/rigorous/college-like than APs. Like, our second-level Biology class we claim is equivalent to a 200-level college class, and we refuse to offer it as an AP because teaching to the test would, we argue, distract from teaching it at that level.
But we have excellent, highly-qualified teachers and facilities for those advanced classes. I’m not sure if we could maintain our credibility with colleges if we did not, although honestly I am not entirely sure how colleges really verify all that. It just appears to be working.
It’s on the school’s websites. Anyone with an internet connection can read it.
I am also requesting school profiles when I tour area private high schools. Only one has declined to share it with me.
Public schools don’t post as much information about their faculty/staff online, but I do know who works in the local public schools because my children attend those and can read state education department websites to determine how teachers are certified/qualified to teach.
In certain cases but not all. It depends on the school. Some have irrelevant educational backgrounds to the content that they are assigned to teach. Someone with a BA in underwater basketweaving teaching Advanced Chemistry, for example.
I’m using hyperbole intentionally as I don’t mean to draw attention to any particular schools, but the contrast is just as stark.
No it’s not. There is no degree in underwater basketweaving.
So since you’ve clearly demonstrated, IMO, your inability to substantiate your spurious claims while offending an entire profession, let’s move the conversation forward.
Since you’ve scrutinized these various school profiles, what is the SAT average and range for the public vs the private?
I think this depends on the public. I go to a public HS where the average SAT is a 1350 and the average ACT is a 31. It is ranked comparably to privates. We actually have a similar rate of acceptance to top schools as private schools when you remove those legacy, donor, etc kids.
The school next door, which I have family at- is even higher ranked with 20+ kids going to Cornell from a 300 person class. That’s not including the other ivies or other top schools. This is probably more than most private schools after removing the hooked population. It’s a public school, and while I live in a wealthy area, there are far less legacy donors than at the local day school nearby- which doesn’t have different admissions results by the way.
Hooked applicants at privates often take the spots for the other smart kids at the same private school.
It comes down to a mix of the quality of the school + legacy, etc. High ranking schools in general- public or private do well in general. Why? Both have money.
By the way, I’ve had my fair of uneducated and incompetent public school teachers. They can’t be fired because of tenure laws in NYS. Privates can fire who they want, so I doubt they have more incompetent teachers than public schools.
The expensive privates near me have a lot more hand-holding around the college application process than our publics. The privates have dedicated college counselors the work with kids from 9th grade, to nicely package them. These counselors have personal connections at some of the more popular colleges & will make a phone call on a student’s behalf. In contrast to our public High School: no dedicated college counselor (there’s guidance counselors and the college piece is only part of their job. They also have 200-300 students each.)
Students from any given school will be judged by previous years’ students from that school.
Any school who graduates “high stat” kids who then drops out of a particular school will hurt admission chances for future years. Even ones who don’t do well will end up hurting future years. School counselors also provide “input” because it hurts their credibility to get someone unqualified admitted if they can’t do well.
BTW: quality of teachers are overrated IMO. Kids should develop skills to learn and not skills to be taught.
I guess my public school is special! My GC had 30 seniors this year- and she made a call or two to schools for me. She said she’d be willing to make more too. She also started working with my freshman sister.
I guess this is specific to public school. I know my public school is a minority, but it’s important for people to know their options.
I do appreciate hearing from students and wish you the best in your college decisions.
Regardless of placement success, I am putting educational quality including the qualifications of faculty ahead of admissions data in evaluating high school options for S30. I’d prefer for him to be better prepared for college than simply handed an admissions offer to a T30 due to the unsubstantiated reputation coattails of the private school brand. I’m fortunate to live in a public school district with highly qualified educators.
As a father of a DS entering high school soon, is it as simple as “taking the toughest” courses that you can take subject to your interest (pathway/eventual career field)?
DS is in a private day school - so, take as many APs as he can and get as high as score as is possible? If we transfer to an IB public school (that does not offer APs) does that change anything in terms of rigor? Take HL as much as you can? (of course, not neglecting the fact you need to have EC’s and community service etc) I am not very well versed on this - save for APs and IB.
Finally, DS ain’t athletic at all - should he still participate in a sport (does running for fitness count?) - not sure how these things are looked at these days – too early but might as well get the lay of the land.
Not really my “line” (Eg AP vs IB etc) but might as well know as a parent lest I get caught off guard later, esp as I am funding private school (Eg AP) and, well, I think the test for IB even in a public school (based on what has been told me).
While I want to help my DS, I think it might be better to butt off and learn from this board (eg no added pressure by asking questions to him LOL)
