How do kids--who are here illegally--provide docs to colleges?

<p><a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37798055/ns/us_news-immigration_a_nation_divided/?ocid=MSNToolbar130%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37798055/ns/us_news-immigration_a_nation_divided/?ocid=MSNToolbar130&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>How does student--when applying--and then registering--Provide accurate,real documentation IF they aren't here legally?
This is not the first of its kind.</p>

<p>Unless one is into forgery, which all of us (I suspect) are against, illegals do not qualify for instate (for public schools) tuition. However, I don't believe that the university will report them to the INS. In California we passed a law prohibiting k through 12 schools from enrolling illegals. That was, I believe, overturned. If not overturned, it certainly isn't being enforced. Most of the documents that we provided the university where transcripts, letters of recommendation...I do not recall anyone asking for a ss card or number, passport, or driver's license. </p>

<p>Technically the students in college become international students, whether or not they (the students) declare themselves as such.</p>

<p>What would make him an illegal citizen? He has an address, which he may have lived in since he was 4 years old. Did the application actually ask him if he was a Mexican citizen? or, more likely, did the application only ask his ethnicity? </p>

<p>It only becomes apparent that he's not a US citizen when he tries to cross the border, or rather, when he tries to re-enter. </p>

<p>He may have applied for FA, which asks for SS numbers. I'm not sure how someone can get around that, but maybe they get that somehow. </p>

<p>Other government-issued documents: passport, driver's license, and birth certificates, may not be needed for the college application.</p>

<p>Wouldn't the social security number thats required etc...be false?</p>

<p>An international has to give a passport, green card or student visa, something that decalres their legal residence..</p>

<p>The student had to be giving the US address as a legal permanent address etc.</p>

<p>Here in our state--the State is requiring-- a passport OR certified copy of birth certificate, plus a bunch of stuff just to renew a drivers license now...</p>

<p>here is an excerpt if you are an immigrant...</p>

<p>Gather one original or certified copy of the following documents:</p>

<p>Valid Alien Registration receipt card, (Green card, Form I-551)
I-551 stamp in passport or on I-94
Immigration Judges Order, with the customer's A-number, granting asylum
I-797, with the customer's A-number, stating the customer has been granted asylum
I-797 or another form from the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, with the customer's A-number, stating the customer's application for Refugee status is approved </p>

<p>My guess is that Harvard didn't look for the students status--and my guess is that MANY colleges do not look for the student status...$$$</p>

<p>
[quote]
illegals do not qualify for instate (for public schools) tuition

[/quote]

In California they do qualify for in-state tuition if they meet certain requirements like attending HS while here (illegally). </p>

<p>
[quote]
...The 9 states which offer in-state tuition to illegal immigrants are California, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Utah and Washington. New Jersey is now reviewing whether to offer in-state tuition, while California is considering whether to allow immigrants to compete for financial aid...

[/quote]

College</a> Board wants more help for illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com</p>

<p>And as if that wasn't enough -

[quote]
A public community college in California has set up a scholarship fund for immigrant students — including illegal immigrants. The $2,500 scholarship has sparked anger by some, including at least one lawmaker who is threatening to cut off federal funding to the school.</p>

<p>Orange County's Santa Ana College says the controversial new memorial scholarship will be funded by private donations and honors former student Tan Ngoc Tran, a student leader and immigrant-rights activist who transferred to Brown University before she was killed by a drunk driver on May 15.
...
Those eligible include students holding green cards, students who have permanent residency — and illegal, undocumented immigrants...

[/quote]

FOXNews.com</a> - Calif. College Offers Scholarship to Illegal Immigrants</p>

<p>That's right. They're not looking and they don't view themselves as the gate-keepers (for immigration, that is!) He had a permanent address. And he wasn't getting a govt-issued doc. He was going for a privately funded college education.</p>

<p>The social security website says--they have to provide lawful proof</p>

<p><a href="http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ss-5.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.socialsecurity.gov/online/ss-5.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>^^ Gotta say--as bad as the CA budget and economy is--I would be furious to be a legal US citizen and a CA resident and not be able to afford to have my kid in the CA schools..
and illegals can get help...</p>

<p>With all of the problems with the CA system and news about how kids can't get courses they need etc--none have made "the list"</p>

<p>The Common Ap and the Universal Ap both have listings for SSN but say they are optional. If he wanted to apply for financial aid at Harvard, they require the CSS profile for both American and foreign applicants. </p>

<p>Unless he's full pay at Harvard, he or his parents would have had to lie somewhere on that CSS profile application because there's no way they wouldn't ask for a SSN!</p>

<p>^ Right wouldn't any Fin Aid ask for tax records and social security numbers--</p>

<p>Theoretically--you can't have a ss# unless you provide lawful legal info--</p>

<p>An alien can file tax returns using an ITIN - ("Individual Taxpayer Identification Number") -- and I don't believe that IRS inquires into immigration status in issuing them. You are looking at two conflicting policies ---that of ICE in controlling immigration, vs. that of IRS in collecting taxes. Historically, IRS stays out the business of passing judgment on the legality of the income -- for example, IRS is just as happy to take its bite out of an individual's prostitution ring or marijuana trading business as anything else. (Savvy people who work in black-market industries will simply leave off details when they fill out their returns).</p>

<p>Anyway, its quite possible that this student and his parents were able to fill out whatever forms Harvard asked without a social security number.</p>

<p>LimaBeam: I am assuming that question is asked in jest: A student is illegal if he wasn't born in the USA and/or came here legally. Showing up at age 4 or 2 days old, with illegal parents makes you an illegal immigrant.</p>

<p>Sorry, last I read in the LA Times, there were stories about kids who are/were illlegal and could not attend UCs or CalStates with instate tuition making it cost prohibitive.</p>

<p>FogFog: be furious.</p>

<p>You can fill out a fafsa and receive aid without a social security number. This student had to be receiving need based financial aid at Harvard or some other private scholarship to attend as Ivy League schools only offer need based aid. And while I understand the issues caused by illegal immigrantion (really, I do, I live in South Florida), I also feel sorry for these children who have lived in the United States for most of their lives. Many of them were babies when their parents came to the US and it is the only home they have known. I believe it is unfair to not allow them the benefit of a college education because of something their parents did, failing to get proper documentation and status. One of the main reasons that this happens is because of the expense involved. And just because the parents are illegal aliens does not mean they do not contribute to State funds. They pay sales tax, property taxes and most likely income tax. I have no problem with illegal aliens who were raised in the US and will live and work in the US, being educated in our colleges and universities. At least they will be on their way to being productive members of our society. Our government needs to decide on a policy that allows these young people, who have spent nearly their entire lives in the US, to become US citizens, regardless of how they got here.</p>

<p>As long as the student didn't get fereral financial aid funds, I don't see how there's a problem. I would imagine Harvard would have seen the student as an international and doesn't Harvard meet full need for internationals? </p>

<p>One other thing... not all illegals are poor. We had a Master's educated teacher here who had been teaching in the ps in a shortage area for over 10 years who was discovered to be illegal. They could deport her to her native country where, eventually, she would be legally entitled to her teacher's pension since she worked for it. I also know a few people who are professionals but work freelance. I doubt they are legal; I do know of at least one who stretched the facts for her visa. (She said a company for which she sometimes freelanced signed that she was a full-time employee on her visa application.) She was young, hip, white, from an English-speaking country and probably earned 6 figures; no one ever asked about her papers.</p>

<p>
[quote]
In California they do qualify for in-state tuition if they meet certain requirements like attending HS while here (illegally).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, if they meet the requirements of AB 540. A legal challenge to the CA law was brought by an out of state kid (Martinez vs. Regents of the University of California). Probably won't be heard by the CA Supreme Court until later in the year. I don't know what the University of California is charging in the interim while waiting for the case to be decided.</p>

<p>Plus there will be the political challenge. Meg Whitman, the Republican candidate for CA governor says she would cut or end AB 540 if elected. In a California election, heaven forbid being seen as soft on immigration issues. It's the kiss of death. </p>

<p>I would guess that AB 540 affects more kids at the community college level. Since these kids won't be eligible for state or federal financial aid, the cost of a UC or CSU would be out of pocket and prohibitive anyway. But community college would be affordable at in state rates.</p>

<p>There was a article in our newpaper just last week profiling a graduating senior in our sch. district. She is an illegal immigrant from Mexico. Came here when she was seven. She is also the Val. of her h.s. class.<br>
She applied and was accepted into the engineering program at our big state u. but will be unable to attend because she would have to pay OOS tuition. </p>

<p>In the article she said she was considering returning to Mexico for college or stay here, go to CC and try to find a way to get to state u.</p>

<p>ellebud, that was a rhetorical question. Of course he is an illegal citizen if his parents brought him over to US illegally, but he probably did have a permanent address. Some of this information, like SS#, is government issued but some other information that is asked in these applications is just need-to-know info. Where I live, you can definitely attend the public school so long as you are a town resident.</p>

<p>I don't know how Harvard could require a SS# to apply when they allow international applicants. I don't suppose Harard adcoms are in the business of legally correlating an applicant's address with their citizenship stauts while they process their application.</p>

<p>Re #18</p>

<p>[url=<a href="https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/CommonApp2010.pdf%5DApparently%5B/url"&gt;https://www.commonapp.org/CommonApp/docs/downloadforms/CommonApp2010.pdf]Apparently[/url&lt;/a&gt;], you do not need to give your SSN via the Common App: "Optional, unless applying for US Federal financial aid with the FAFSA form." I guess Mr. Balderas did not file a FAFSA unless he wanted to flout immigration law even further with a fake SSN. What'd I'd like to know is how he answered the citizenship question in the Demographics section of the Common App. As an illegal, he clearly doesn't have an AR number, nor does he have a valid student visa for studying here.</p>

<p>In his case, it's easy to get blindsided by his being a high-achieving student at Harvard, but fact is, he is an illegal alien who is unlawfully in our country. I've heard numerous comments arguing how he shouldn't be deported because he is the kind of person who could help our country. I find that to be very selfish since Mexico probably needs his talents a hell of a lot more than we do.</p>

<p>As a recent Georgia Tech graduate, I befriended many international students on student visas. I know that they didn't get any financial aid from Georgia Tech due to institutional policy; all of them were financed by their parents back home, who paid full freight. They went through the legal channels to study here and abided by the rules. And yet, with stories like those of Ms. Colotl and Mr. Balderas, all I can think of is, "wow, my friends got screwed for being law-abiding citizens."</p>

<p>S1 has misplaced his SS card and here is the evidence required by SS to get a replacement. You do not have to appear in person, you can simply mail in your request. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Evidence of Identity
You must provide current, unexpired evidence of identity in your legal name. Your legal name will be shown on the Social Security card. Generally, we prefer to see documents issued in the U.S. Documents you submit to establish identity must show your legal name AND provide biographical information (your date of birth, age, or parents' names) and/or physical information (photograph, or physical description - height, eye and hair color, etc.). If you send a photo identity document but do not appear in person, the document must show your biographical information (e.g., your date of birth, age, or parents' names). Generally, documents without an expiration date should have been issued within the past two years for adults and within the past four years for children.
As proof of your identity, you must provide a:  U.S. driver's license; or  U.S. State-issued non-driver identity card; or  U.S. passport
If you do not have one of the documents above or cannot get a replacement within 10 work days, we may accept other documents that show your legal name and biographical information, such as a U.S. military identity card, Certificate of Naturalization, employee identity card, certified copy of medical record (clinic, doctor or hospital), health insurance card, Medicaid card, or school identity card/record. For young children, we may accept medical records (clinic, doctor, or hospital) maintained by the medical provider. We may also accept a final adoption decree, or a school identity card or other school record maintained by the school.
If you are not a U.S. citizen, we must see your current U.S. immigration document(s) and your foreign passport with biographical information or photograph.
WE CANNOT ACCEPT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, HOSPITAL SOUVENIR BIRTH CERTIFICATE, SOCIAL SECURITY CARD STUB OR A SOCIAL SECURITY RECORD as evidence of identity.
Evidence of U.S. Citizenship
In general, you must provide your U.S. birth certificate or U.S. Passport. Other documents you may provide are a Consular Report of Birth, Certificate of Citizenship, or Certificate of Naturalization.
Evidence of Immigration Status
You must provide a current unexpired document issued to you by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) showing your immigration status, such as Form I-551, I-94, I-688B, or I-766. If you are an international student or exchange visitor, you may need to provide additional documents, such as Form I-20, DS-2019, or a letter authorizing employment from your school and employer (F-1) or sponsor (J-1). We CANNOT accept a receipt showing you applied for the document. If you are not authorized to work in the U.S., we can issue you a Social Security card only if you need the number for a valid non-work reason. Your card will be marked to show you cannot work and if you do work, we will notify DHS.

[/quote]
</p>