<p>I’ve seen the admissions statistics of some Ivy League schools such as Harvard and Columbia, and notice that some students managed to get in with GPA’s lower than a 4.0 and SAT scores below the 90th percentile. I understand that the college essay is also critical in the admissions process and so are extracurricular/community service activities, but why would college admissions officers of an Ivy League school decide to accept someone with a GPA below 4.0 and an average SAT score, and reject someone with a 4.0 GPA and an SAT score that beats the 90th percentile?</p>
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<p>You basically answered your question in the same sentence</p>
<p>But how does this happen? An applicant with a low GPA and SAT score, but a good essay and extracurricular activities gets chosen over an applicant who had a high GPA and high SAT score and a good essay/extracurriculars + leadership roles? I know the essay can be a lifeline to some applicants, but how do college admissions officers come to the conclusion that someone with a high GPA/SAT scores isn’t good enough for the school than someone who has a fairly low GPA/SAT score?</p>
<p>Well they have to find people that fit in with the profile of the class they’re trying to create. If they only took people with strong academics, their class would be lacking in other aspects. So they accept musicians, athletes, dancers, etc who will complete their class. If they automatically threw out everyone with a GPA lower than 4.0, they’d be pretty limited…</p>
<p>It’s not a who has the highest GPA & SAT, thing. Harvard likely builds the initial acceptance pool from a range of scores probably something like a 3.8-4.0GPA and 2250-2400 Sat. From this pool they chose the best well rounded students from the EC, essay and rec components. Considering this, the school will many times give the nod to a 3.9 -2250 kid over the perfect 4.0 -2400.</p>
<p>I attended a workshop for prospective students at UCLA sponsored by UC Irvine in CA. One of the workshops was getting a perspective of how admission officers go through the process of admitting students by having us go through an admission exercise. We were split up into groups by tables, everyone was given 4 profiles and essay of potential candidates fpr our fictitious school. We were also given a profile of the make believe school. The profile included things like, medium college, emphasis on liberal arts but interested in developing its engineering, has Div 3 sport teams and wanted to build their sports. The school is also interested in increasing it’s diversity of students and etc. The profile included the basic characteristics that you would see on the college board web site. Each table was to accept 1 student, wait list 1 student, and deny two students and then present your decision as a group.</p>
<p>During the exercise, in my own group there were plenty of disagreements, each person had different reasons and it was difficult for all of us to agree and took some discussion before we arrived to a conclusion that we all would accept. Each candidate profile was different, the profiles included who visited the school, their GPAs, description of course taken in high school, EC, SAT scores and their essay. All candidates were required to express why they wanted to attend this particular school. Each candidate had different reasons, one wanted to play basketball, his GPA was just a tad bit lower than the other 3 candidates. One student expressed that no one in her family had ever attended college and she would be the first, in addition she expressed how much her family struggled financially and through her hardshipe explained how she overcame the obstacles. Her GPA was high, but her profile showed that her high school was not too difficult. I can’t recall the other two candidates but I think was within the range but wrote a poor essay (in my opinion) and then the 4th was average in my opinion again.</p>
<p>Well, in the end when all the tables presented their results, no two tables had the same choices. My point is that the admission process in the end when it is all said and done very “subjective”.</p>
<ul>
<li>ask yourself what can I bring to the school?
Naturally, you’ll bring the best of you - capabilities, skills, talents, and etc…
Hence your admission package - make it as strong as you possibly can. Best Regards.</li>
</ul>
<p>Lopezam- that sounds like a worthwhile experience.</p>
<p>Not all 4.0 GPAs are created equal. Not all ECs are created equal. One student with every advantage of wealth, private schools, SAT tutors, etc may get a very high SAT but another student with every disadvantage scores 200 points lower, which is the better student? </p>
<p>We don’t know? All things weren’t created equal. One student faces many character building challenges and prevails. Another student has yet to be challenged. Which one should admissions accept?</p>
<p>There are no easy answers but many people feel that the stats are nice but say very little about the person. Certainly not enough to solely base admissions decisions.</p>
<p>Lynn: Listen to this article</p>
<p>[Behind</a> The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR](<a href=“Behind The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR”>Behind The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR)</p>
<p>Also, “Ivy League” is not the penultimate. Maybe in further postings you should say “very selective” – because certainly there are more than eight extraordinary American colleges.</p>
<p>If you look at the common data set for Harvard, notice how it says everything is considered. So it’s not like they have to take the kids with the strongest record. If they did, they will have plenty of those people in their class. Those selective schools value diversity in everyway possible!</p>
<p>Let’s compare:</p>
<p>Kid A: First generation, parents don’t know English, grew up in the ghetto and went to a school known for, I don’t know, a high drop out rate and drug use, yet had a 3.8 GPA and a 1850 SAT, and also completed in state wide writing competitions and volunteered at the local hospital.</p>
<p>Kid B: Wealthy kid at a top private school who had a tutor and had a 4.0 and a 2200 and had the money to do whatever ECs he wanted.</p>
<p>Which is more impressive in your eyes?</p>
<p>Behind The Scenes: How Do You Get Into Amherst? : NPR</p>
<p>Excellent! Thank you for this reference. I plan on forwarding it to my friends.</p>
<p>I forgot to include some helpful resources -
We visited Boston and toured Harvard and MIT - found two Harvard Crimson books and the other was a recommendation from a college counselor.</p>
<p>TITLE: 50 Successful Harvard Application Essay</p>
<p>ISBN 978-0-312-62438-5</p>
<p>(3rd Edition, What Worked for Them Can Help you Get into the College of your Choice) </p>
<p>Recommends themes, used to help write your personal essay -
The Survivor - Overcoming Challenges and Adversity
One Among Many - Unique Applicant
Storyteller - Experience that Illuminate Character
Through Their Eyes - Finding Yourself in Others</p>
<p>TITLE: HOW They Got into Harvard
ISBN: 0-312-34375-2</p>
<p>50 Successful Applicants Share 8 Key Strategies for Getting into the College of Your Choice</p>
<p>TITLE: How to Make Colleges Want You, Mike Moyer, Sourcebooks.com</p>
<p>(easy read, big print)</p>
<p>The difference between a 2350 and a 2400 is 2 questions.</p>
<p>I think both kids in @agreatperhaps’ post are stellar, impressive students.</p>
<p>I think admissions has to then decide which one is more interesting, will add more to the student body and the most to gain from admission.</p>
<p>Again, the one that is more character tested may be the most interesting one to admit. Just my guess at how admissions may look at this stuff. My D has had robust opportunities (not privileged but upper middle class) but she was personally driven to go well beyond what was given to her. I think that is a big part of it. Whatever level your starting point, are you going beyond that?</p>
<p>I think the sons of Princess Diana, William and Harry, are examples of kids coming from immense privilege that somehow found ways to go beyond what they’ve been given. I hate royalty but like those guys.</p>
<p>@Mad: here’s more application on agreatperhaps’ post.</p>
<p>College X has 3 slots. 2 kids like Kid A apply while 10 kids like Kid B apply. College X offers accept to one A kid and 2 B kids. </p>
<p>The A kids have a 50% admit rate while 20% admit rate for the B kids. How likely are those 8 rejected kids going to grouse about the single A kid who got offered admissions? This is what the OP is wondering about.</p>
<p>It isn’t that someone with a high SAT score and a 4.0 isn’t good enough; it is that they are a dime a dozen and any one school does not have enough room for all of those students who apply.</p>
<p>To make class discussions more interesting, schools want a diverse make-up of students. So a kid with a less stellar GPA/SAT but who has an interesting background or a unique perspective on life might get in before yet another upper or uppermiddle class straight A student.</p>
<p>Yield protection anyone? Families with homes with equity/mortgages and incomes between $150-$400k per year and two or more children will not qualify for need based aid and would be financially irresponsible to spend $250K on one child’s four year undergraduate degree. Admissions offices know this and can easily use the information on the application to glean the likelihood of an applicant’s acceptance of an admissions offer. Claims of being need blind or meeting 100% of demonstrated need are hard to verify at best, but certainly are effective at driving up the number of applicants (oh and therefore yield). In today’s data driven world it is very easy to figure out exactly what type of means a family has. Anyone with family or friends at Ivy League and expensive private liberal arts colleges know that the overwhelming majority of students attending come from significant money. Especially at Ivies which give no merit or athletic aid. Why not take the pressure off of all the kids whose parents earn incomes in the 99th percentile and below and tell them the truth. Their chances even with a 4.6 and a 2370 are not that good at an Ivy. Students who graduate from Ivy League schools are successful not just because they went to one, they also have great contacts through their families. Spending $250k won’t buy an upper middle income access to those contacts, but it will saddle their parents with a huge debt to pay off. Is that really worth bragging about? Be happy, apply to a school you like, and have a great life. Stop obsessing that attending undergraduate college with kids whose families are in the top 1% of US incomes and wealthy foreigners is the only way to get ahead in life. It probably is the least efficient way to make the leap from upper middle to lower upper income status if that is your goal. Be creative and work hard. It is cheaper and way more effective. And you will quickly learn much better ways you can use $250k to boost your income, improve society, or whatever your goal may be.</p>
<p>Claims of being need blind or meeting 100% of demonstrated need are hard to verify at best,</p>
<p>When you don’t see financials, how do you figure out financial means? </p>
<p>It isn’t that someone with a high SAT score and a 4.0 isn’t good enough; it is that they are a dime a dozen and any one school does not have enough room for all of those students who apply. I’d just modify this to: high SAT and 4.0 don’t ensure a kid comes through on his CA as interesting, mature, a solid thinker, with perspective. It doesn’t mean his activities were of any substance or had any impact on others.</p>
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<p>Actually, ** 60% ** of students attending Harvard receive financial aid, ** 50% ** of Yale students receive financial aid, and ** 60% ** of students at Princeton receive financial aid. Many families making over $200K receive aid (most with 2 kids in college). See chart: [Who</a> Qualifies for Aid?<em>|</em>Princeton University](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/how_it_works/who_qualifies/]Who”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/financialaid/how_it_works/who_qualifies/)</p>
<p>Full disclosure: Our family makes between $150K and $200k and our kids are attending Harvard and Yale for less than the cost of our flagship state school.</p>
<p>Having gone through the college applications process twice, here’s what I did learn about financial aid: Every college uses their own institutional formula to calculate aid and their calculations ARE NOT transparent – none of them. Between my son and daughter, we received financial aid offers from about 14/15 colleges – all of them meeting 100% of demonstrated need. But, the financial aid varied by tens of thousands of dollars per year. For our family HYP and Vanderbilt gave the most aid – all beating our state schools – while Brown, Dartmouth, Georgetown, Northwestern, Wesleyan, and Boston College gave the least aid. Williams, Pomona and Middlebury were in the middle.</p>